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Trump didn’t mandate them to federal workers and to the military. Trump didn’t get up in front of the populace and lie about their efficacy. For what it’s wor

Trump didn’t mandate them to federal workers and to the military. Trump didn’t get up in front of the populace and lie about their efficacy. For what it’s worth…I am not a Trump supporter…but I am not going to make excuses for Biden and the democrats for the clusterfuck they created.

consumer451 1y ago
I could say that it wasn't Biden who came out anti-vax, while getting vaccinated himself, unlike Trump. RFK made a career out of being anti-vax, while according to his congressional testimony, his own children were indeed vaccinated. These people are political grifters, with no limits, even when it comes to other people's health. (This comment exchange probably sucks, sorry)
- kcplate 1y ago
  It doesn’t matter that Biden et al. are pro vaccination and that RFKjr is antivax. What matters is that Biden et al. influenced more antivax attitudes than RFKjr could have ever hoped to in all the time he evangelized it. That is the real issue. RFKjr is in the position he is as a reaction to bad leadership. Whatever further damage that he manages to do, is still owned by the mismanagement caused by the prior administration.
  - consumer451 1y ago
    This is what your argument sounds like to me: https://youtu.be/WX3zenwu-ig?t=229 https://youtu.be/WX3zenwu-ig?t=229
  - kashunstva 1y ago
    > RFKjr is in the position he is as a reaction to bad leadership. This seems like nonsense. Is your theory that the previous administration is perceived by some as having over-reached on COVID-19 vaccines; so the proper response is to install someone with no background in biomedical sciences to blow up vaccine research and implementation and then blame it all on the prior administration … do I have it right?
    - kcplate 1y ago
      No, that’s not what I said at all. RFKjr’s public prominence rose much higher in 2021 and 2022 because the previous administration publicly lied about the vaccine’s efficacy. He was the most vocal and well known antivax person in the public space so of course when the public detects obvious bullshit from its leaders it will gravitate to the rebel with the loudest voice. RFKjr’s popularity rose and he tried to capitalize on it by choosing to run for president as a democrat, then an independent, then throws his support behind Trump…who wins. Trump is a master troll who wants to hurt the opposition and who better to do that as Director of HHS than RFKjr? Without Biden and Fauci creating the environment of people questioning vaccine efficacy, RFKjr doesn’t get the popularity bump. His position is is due to that bump. He is a reaction to bad leadership.
      - creato 1y ago
        > publicly lied about the vaccine’s efficacy. You keep saying this... what was the lie?
        PleasureBot 1y ago
        The most common response I've heard from people who believe the government lied about the COVID vaccine is that they take issue with the word 'vaccine'. They think it should not have been described as a vaccine since you can still get COVID after getting the vaccine, and the vaccine has a certain timeframe after which it loses efficacy because the virus mutates. Pointing out that other vaccines have these exact same properties just leads to them claiming all of those are not really vaccines and we need to stop recommending them. In their mind if its not a shot you get once, after which there is no possibility of contracting the disease, it is a hoax. You can see exactly this train of thought in this thread from some people
      - mindslight 1y ago
        But we can write a similar narrative about the abjectly poor handling of Covid by Trump (using it as a divisive wedge issue as if he was still campaigning, rather than actually leading), causing the ham-fisted overreactions of traditional government structures trying to restore order. So how does that ping-ponging of blame stop? In reality, government will always be simplistically paternalistic and people have the responsibility to wade through the bullshit and actually analyze for themselves - not to just find one damnable overstepping and then assume an alternative must be perfect. It's like all of these "conservatives" (how they think of themselves, they obviously are no longer actually conservatives) finally had their "trust the system" broken, but then rather being generally skeptical and trying to think for themselves, their general desire to trust authority figures made them latch on to contrarian "authorities". And it turns out those professional contrarians don't actually like our country very much at all.
croes 1y ago
Sure they lied about efficacy and not just a decline of efficacy because of the virus mutating?
- toomim 1y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgCabQ_jZm8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgCabQ_jZm8
  - croes 1y ago
    Your link isn't about vaccines but masks and https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesbooksauthors/2025/06/09/the-psychology-of-influence-and-the-making-of-a-thought-leader/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesbooksauthors/2025/06/09/t...
    - toomim 1y ago
      Oops, I gave the wrong link. These are the vaccine links: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj6-QDVYbv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj6-QDVYbv8 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI3yU5Z2adI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI3yU5Z2adI

consumer451 1y ago

I could say that it wasn't Biden who came out anti-vax, while getting vaccinated himself, unlike Trump. RFK made a career out of being anti-vax, while according to his congressional testimony, his own children were indeed vaccinated. These people are political grifters, with no limits, even when it comes to other people's health. (This comment exchange probably sucks, sorry)

kcplate 1y ago
It doesn’t matter that Biden et al. are pro vaccination and that RFKjr is antivax. What matters is that Biden et al. influenced more antivax attitudes than RFKjr could have ever hoped to in all the time he evangelized it. That is the real issue. RFKjr is in the position he is as a reaction to bad leadership. Whatever further damage that he manages to do, is still owned by the mismanagement caused by the prior administration.
- consumer451 1y ago
  This is what your argument sounds like to me: https://youtu.be/WX3zenwu-ig?t=229 https://youtu.be/WX3zenwu-ig?t=229
- kashunstva 1y ago
  > RFKjr is in the position he is as a reaction to bad leadership. This seems like nonsense. Is your theory that the previous administration is perceived by some as having over-reached on COVID-19 vaccines; so the proper response is to install someone with no background in biomedical sciences to blow up vaccine research and implementation and then blame it all on the prior administration … do I have it right?
  - kcplate 1y ago
    No, that’s not what I said at all. RFKjr’s public prominence rose much higher in 2021 and 2022 because the previous administration publicly lied about the vaccine’s efficacy. He was the most vocal and well known antivax person in the public space so of course when the public detects obvious bullshit from its leaders it will gravitate to the rebel with the loudest voice. RFKjr’s popularity rose and he tried to capitalize on it by choosing to run for president as a democrat, then an independent, then throws his support behind Trump…who wins. Trump is a master troll who wants to hurt the opposition and who better to do that as Director of HHS than RFKjr? Without Biden and Fauci creating the environment of people questioning vaccine efficacy, RFKjr doesn’t get the popularity bump. His position is is due to that bump. He is a reaction to bad leadership.
    - creato 1y ago
      > publicly lied about the vaccine’s efficacy. You keep saying this... what was the lie?
      - PleasureBot 1y ago
        The most common response I've heard from people who believe the government lied about the COVID vaccine is that they take issue with the word 'vaccine'. They think it should not have been described as a vaccine since you can still get COVID after getting the vaccine, and the vaccine has a certain timeframe after which it loses efficacy because the virus mutates. Pointing out that other vaccines have these exact same properties just leads to them claiming all of those are not really vaccines and we need to stop recommending them. In their mind if its not a shot you get once, after which there is no possibility of contracting the disease, it is a hoax. You can see exactly this train of thought in this thread from some people
    - mindslight 1y ago
      But we can write a similar narrative about the abjectly poor handling of Covid by Trump (using it as a divisive wedge issue as if he was still campaigning, rather than actually leading), causing the ham-fisted overreactions of traditional government structures trying to restore order. So how does that ping-ponging of blame stop? In reality, government will always be simplistically paternalistic and people have the responsibility to wade through the bullshit and actually analyze for themselves - not to just find one damnable overstepping and then assume an alternative must be perfect. It's like all of these "conservatives" (how they think of themselves, they obviously are no longer actually conservatives) finally had their "trust the system" broken, but then rather being generally skeptical and trying to think for themselves, their general desire to trust authority figures made them latch on to contrarian "authorities". And it turns out those professional contrarians don't actually like our country very much at all.

croes 1y ago

Sure they lied about efficacy and not just a decline of efficacy because of the virus mutating?

toomim 1y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgCabQ_jZm8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgCabQ_jZm8
- croes 1y ago
  Your link isn't about vaccines but masks and https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesbooksauthors/2025/06/09/the-psychology-of-influence-and-the-making-of-a-thought-leader/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesbooksauthors/2025/06/09/t...
  - toomim 1y ago
    Oops, I gave the wrong link. These are the vaccine links: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj6-QDVYbv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj6-QDVYbv8 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI3yU5Z2adI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI3yU5Z2adI