4 ms·

Soldiers, especially Marines, are trained to follow orders and kill. They are not specialists in de-escalation or crowd control. Here's hoping this is purely a

Soldiers, especially Marines, are trained to follow orders and kill. They are not specialists in de-escalation or crowd control. Here's hoping this is purely an optics play and they are only there to waste money and incite nationalism. Because if this escalates in any way and the US military turns on Americans, its hard to understate how bad things could get.

smitty1e 1y ago
https://www.usmcu.edu/Research/Marine-Corps-History-Division/Information-for-Units/-Marine-Corps-Humanitarian-Operations/ https://www.usmcu.edu/Research/Marine-Corps-History-Division...
acdha 1y ago
I’m not sure that’s true any more. I know a few vets and it was definitely thought-provoking to hear a Marine who’d been in the thick of Fallujah react to some police shooting by noting that they had stricter rules about use of force because the top brass wanted to get the Iraqi people on their side.
- zzgo 1y ago
  I suspect that the current administration isn't concerned about winning the hearts and minds of Angelenos.
  - acdha 1y ago
    Very true, but I don’t think there’s been enough time to completely reverse years of training.
  - vrosas 1y ago
    You suspect what is very obvious.
  - leptons 1y ago
    Every city in the US has illegal aliens, but how many ICE raids are making the news in places like St. Louis, or New Orleans, or Houston - no, they aren't sending ICE to red states like they are to California, they are focusing on Los Angeles for the purpose of fomenting unrest so they can enact martial law. That wouldn't be so cool for their supporters if red states had riots, but their supporters love seeing liberal California with a boot on its neck.
    - Ccecil 1y ago
      Not that I totally disagree with your statement but one part.... I live in a very red state (North Idaho). They don't need to send ICE here. The sheriffs are all cooperating and lending county facilities to hold immigrants. It is safe to say the entire sheriffs department is basically a branch of ICE at this point. They have been targeting I-90 and US-95 heavily and running plates on every car along with a helicopter that basically just goes back and forth all day. There is very little immigrant presence here (illegal or otherwise) but they have been catching work crews at random (usually under the premise of suspicious vehicle/behavior). Spokane has been having CBP and ICE raids as well. Quite a few make the local news. Just doesn't get the attention like the larger cities do. Quite a bit of roundups going on out by Yakima and Tri-Cities, WA too. Which is part of why they are using county jails to hold people.
    - selimthegrim 1y ago
      I live in New Orleans and I assure you ICE raids have been making news here and in the suburbs and Baton Rouge.
- simoncion 1y ago
  > I’m not sure that’s true any more. If it was ever true, it hasn't been true for a long time. There used to be (and probably still is) a saying in the US military that goes something like "Folks who can't hack it in the military wash out and become cops.". The military is not at all configured to be an effective long-term occupying force, but its personnel are trained to be soldiers [0] and peacekeepers. (While I'm absolutely certain that one can find examples of psychos that should have been detected and discharged earlier, that's true of any sufficiently-large organization. Finding every malicious person is a task that's next to impossible.) Anyway, in a high-pressure, chaotic situation, I'd rather come up on a random member of the US military [1] than a random cop any day of the week. [0] Yes, this does mean that they damage, destroy, injure, and kill when required. [1] Whether active duty, reservist, or honorably discharged.
hypeatei 1y ago
> Here's hoping this is purely an optics play and they are only there to waste money and incite nationalism They don't deserve any benefit of the doubt at this point. Ask yourself what the MAGA reaction would've been to troops being deployed to their riot at the Capitol.
- IG_Semmelweiss 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - jeffgreco 1y ago
    Yes.
  - koolba 1y ago
    > Is it crazy to want someone to protect my neighbor's car , or business? Is it wild to expect my lifetime saving not be torched or destroyed? No, it’s not crazy but for an unusually large portion of the populace it makes you a racist. Ditto for any suggestion that immigration law be enforced.
    - anon84873628 1y ago
      What federal agents have been doing is not legal enforcement of immigration law.
  - dylan604 1y ago
    did the locals refuse to show up? no. This is Trump pushing his agenda and not because the locals are refusing to do their job
  - toxic 1y ago
    Your neighbor's car and business are 100% safe from protesters, unless your neighbor is a fed. You realize that this is all happening in a very small part of LA, which is an absolutely enormous metropolitan area with more than 10 million residents. The cars being torched are Waymos (which have been happily recording video that is turned over to authorities at request, instead of by warrant -- this action will keep them out of the protest zones) and no businesses are being harmed. The ones being violent are in uniform (even LAPD is saying that protesters are peaceful and those who are violent are people who are frequently violent and showed up for the fight, which is telling on themselves more than a bit). For 99% of Angelenos, this weekend could have been business as usual if they chose to ignore the federal threats to their neighbors. Millions went to farmers markets, kids birthday parties, church, and all of the other regular weekend activities. The city has not been invaded by anyone other than feds, it is not a war zone, it's not even close to a riot. You are being lied to and manipulated if you believe any of that. And this week, many residents who have the privilege of doing so are standing in line to barricade the entrance to schools that are hosting graduation ceremonies, so abuelas can celebrate the end of elementary school without being terrified of being kidnapped by men in masks. This is how the community protects its own, and a lot of other places could learn from that if they gave a shit. In LA, the guys standing outside of Home Depot are the kind of guys that a woman would feel safe telling that they're carrying cash, invite them into their car, and bring them to their house... alone. These are not dangers to anyone. LAPD and especially LASD, on the other hand, aren't the kind of guys who are safe alone with their own wives.
spacemadness 1y ago
[flagged]
- absurdo 1y ago
  Please don’t stoke fires like this. HN isn’t the place for it.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- lmm 1y ago
  This started with rioters attacking the legitimate authorities (ICE) as they tried to enforce long-established law that most of the population supports (you can't be in the country without citizenship, visa, or similar authorisation). Escalating to the national guard and ultimately the military is established best practice when the rule of law breaks down in a given locality. No fascism there (if anything, letting rioters run wild as long as they're going after the undesirables is a well known fascist tactic)
tylerflick 1y ago
Not saying I agree with the deployment, but as someone who was in this gun club this isn’t true at all and hasn’t been for some time. IIRC basic de-escalation was taught in recruit training.
- Refreeze5224 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - mgiampapa 1y ago
    Hanlon's razor applies.
    - Refreeze5224 1y ago
      Which part of Hanlon's Razor asks you to ignore years of evidence and explicit declarations of intent?
- inferiorhuman 1y ago
  I suspect that whatever training the military provides is more than what LAPD officers get. LAPD is talking a good game this time around but ABC broadcast footage of mounted LAPD officers trying to get their horses to stomp someone who was on the ground, prone, and not resisting. YMMV.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- justinrubek 1y ago
  I went through 10 years ago. It was not taught then.
hackernoops 1y ago
[flagged]
netsharc 1y ago
> Soldiers, especially Marines, are trained to follow orders and kill. I thought only German Nazi soldiers were incapable of having morality and ability to decide, and were only capable of following orders.

smitty1e 1y ago

https://www.usmcu.edu/Research/Marine-Corps-History-Division/Information-for-Units/-Marine-Corps-Humanitarian-Operations/ https://www.usmcu.edu/Research/Marine-Corps-History-Division...

acdha 1y ago

I’m not sure that’s true any more. I know a few vets and it was definitely thought-provoking to hear a Marine who’d been in the thick of Fallujah react to some police shooting by noting that they had stricter rules about use of force because the top brass wanted to get the Iraqi people on their side.

zzgo 1y ago
I suspect that the current administration isn't concerned about winning the hearts and minds of Angelenos.
- acdha 1y ago
  Very true, but I don’t think there’s been enough time to completely reverse years of training.
- vrosas 1y ago
  You suspect what is very obvious.
- leptons 1y ago
  Every city in the US has illegal aliens, but how many ICE raids are making the news in places like St. Louis, or New Orleans, or Houston - no, they aren't sending ICE to red states like they are to California, they are focusing on Los Angeles for the purpose of fomenting unrest so they can enact martial law. That wouldn't be so cool for their supporters if red states had riots, but their supporters love seeing liberal California with a boot on its neck.
  - Ccecil 1y ago
    Not that I totally disagree with your statement but one part.... I live in a very red state (North Idaho). They don't need to send ICE here. The sheriffs are all cooperating and lending county facilities to hold immigrants. It is safe to say the entire sheriffs department is basically a branch of ICE at this point. They have been targeting I-90 and US-95 heavily and running plates on every car along with a helicopter that basically just goes back and forth all day. There is very little immigrant presence here (illegal or otherwise) but they have been catching work crews at random (usually under the premise of suspicious vehicle/behavior). Spokane has been having CBP and ICE raids as well. Quite a few make the local news. Just doesn't get the attention like the larger cities do. Quite a bit of roundups going on out by Yakima and Tri-Cities, WA too. Which is part of why they are using county jails to hold people.
  - selimthegrim 1y ago
    I live in New Orleans and I assure you ICE raids have been making news here and in the suburbs and Baton Rouge.
simoncion 1y ago
> I’m not sure that’s true any more. If it was ever true, it hasn't been true for a long time. There used to be (and probably still is) a saying in the US military that goes something like "Folks who can't hack it in the military wash out and become cops.". The military is not at all configured to be an effective long-term occupying force, but its personnel are trained to be soldiers [0] and peacekeepers. (While I'm absolutely certain that one can find examples of psychos that should have been detected and discharged earlier, that's true of any sufficiently-large organization. Finding every malicious person is a task that's next to impossible.) Anyway, in a high-pressure, chaotic situation, I'd rather come up on a random member of the US military [1] than a random cop any day of the week. [0] Yes, this does mean that they damage, destroy, injure, and kill when required. [1] Whether active duty, reservist, or honorably discharged.

hypeatei 1y ago

> Here's hoping this is purely an optics play and they are only there to waste money and incite nationalism They don't deserve any benefit of the doubt at this point. Ask yourself what the MAGA reaction would've been to troops being deployed to their riot at the Capitol.

IG_Semmelweiss 1y ago
[flagged]
- jeffgreco 1y ago
  Yes.
- koolba 1y ago
  > Is it crazy to want someone to protect my neighbor's car , or business? Is it wild to expect my lifetime saving not be torched or destroyed? No, it’s not crazy but for an unusually large portion of the populace it makes you a racist. Ditto for any suggestion that immigration law be enforced.
  - anon84873628 1y ago
    What federal agents have been doing is not legal enforcement of immigration law.
- dylan604 1y ago
  did the locals refuse to show up? no. This is Trump pushing his agenda and not because the locals are refusing to do their job
- toxic 1y ago
  Your neighbor's car and business are 100% safe from protesters, unless your neighbor is a fed. You realize that this is all happening in a very small part of LA, which is an absolutely enormous metropolitan area with more than 10 million residents. The cars being torched are Waymos (which have been happily recording video that is turned over to authorities at request, instead of by warrant -- this action will keep them out of the protest zones) and no businesses are being harmed. The ones being violent are in uniform (even LAPD is saying that protesters are peaceful and those who are violent are people who are frequently violent and showed up for the fight, which is telling on themselves more than a bit). For 99% of Angelenos, this weekend could have been business as usual if they chose to ignore the federal threats to their neighbors. Millions went to farmers markets, kids birthday parties, church, and all of the other regular weekend activities. The city has not been invaded by anyone other than feds, it is not a war zone, it's not even close to a riot. You are being lied to and manipulated if you believe any of that. And this week, many residents who have the privilege of doing so are standing in line to barricade the entrance to schools that are hosting graduation ceremonies, so abuelas can celebrate the end of elementary school without being terrified of being kidnapped by men in masks. This is how the community protects its own, and a lot of other places could learn from that if they gave a shit. In LA, the guys standing outside of Home Depot are the kind of guys that a woman would feel safe telling that they're carrying cash, invite them into their car, and bring them to their house... alone. These are not dangers to anyone. LAPD and especially LASD, on the other hand, aren't the kind of guys who are safe alone with their own wives.

spacemadness 1y ago

[flagged]

absurdo 1y ago
Please don’t stoke fires like this. HN isn’t the place for it.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
lmm 1y ago
This started with rioters attacking the legitimate authorities (ICE) as they tried to enforce long-established law that most of the population supports (you can't be in the country without citizenship, visa, or similar authorisation). Escalating to the national guard and ultimately the military is established best practice when the rule of law breaks down in a given locality. No fascism there (if anything, letting rioters run wild as long as they're going after the undesirables is a well known fascist tactic)

tylerflick 1y ago

Not saying I agree with the deployment, but as someone who was in this gun club this isn’t true at all and hasn’t been for some time. IIRC basic de-escalation was taught in recruit training.

Refreeze5224 1y ago
[flagged]
- mgiampapa 1y ago
  Hanlon's razor applies.
  - Refreeze5224 1y ago
    Which part of Hanlon's Razor asks you to ignore years of evidence and explicit declarations of intent?
inferiorhuman 1y ago
I suspect that whatever training the military provides is more than what LAPD officers get. LAPD is talking a good game this time around but ABC broadcast footage of mounted LAPD officers trying to get their horses to stomp someone who was on the ground, prone, and not resisting. YMMV.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
justinrubek 1y ago
I went through 10 years ago. It was not taught then.

hackernoops 1y ago

[flagged]

netsharc 1y ago

> Soldiers, especially Marines, are trained to follow orders and kill. I thought only German Nazi soldiers were incapable of having morality and ability to decide, and were only capable of following orders.