8 ms·

clinical science tends to have a leftist bias towards... being accurate? proven? safe?

by bstsb 1y ago

consumer451 1y ago
I know that many might read the parent comment as flippant, or politically biased, but we are witnessing the insane reversion of scientific advancement. This is not a new trend: > There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti‑intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’ - “A Cult of Ignorance” by Isaac Asimov, published on January 21, 1980 in Newsweek
- giardini 1y ago
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  - consumer451 1y ago
    Got me. I wrote a giant semi-polarized screed to reply, then I got the joke. Comedy is legal again! (Use your context tool, an agentic LLM could do better! Click on profile and then comments before you judge someone so quickly!)
- refurb 1y ago
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  - ActorNightly 1y ago
    The statement "lies the government told during COVID - masks don’t work, then they work, vaccines stop transmission, then they don’t." ..is just simply not true. Nobody said masks didn't work. They said that cloth masks werent as effective as surgical masks. And it wasn't about protection of self, it was about not spreading the virus. Vaccine effectiveness was also something that was being guessed at first, and then corrected. Nothing wrong with either, as this was an unprecedented time. This distrust of government sentiment would be valid if your camp a) had actual source of truth beyond Joe Rogan , and b) didn't overwhelmingly vote for Trump who lies WAY more about everything.
    - lysp 1y ago
      Original comment was flagged, so jumping onto this one. The phrases used by @refurb are commonly repeated phrases, but they are missing nuance. Masks absolutely work, just ask any nurse who didn't catch COVID while working 12-hour shifts for weeks in a COVID ward. The issue like you said is the right type of mask, and wearing it properly. Half the time people were wearing masks with their nose poking out, or under their chin. Even wearing it fully covering - if it isn't airtight, and you haven't pinched the wired nose connection removing the small gap, it still won't work. Similar with vaccines, science isn't exact, so a statement made at the start of the pandemic is not going to be the same 12-18 months later. There were dozens of variants of COVID each with different levels of risk. A vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't catch the virus, but can minimise or reduce symptoms, reduce spread, prime your body with some antibodies for your body to start combating it sooner. So it's easy to say someone "lied". But data changes. Also, you have to make statements for the general population (lowest common denominator), not people with an educated / scientific / medical background. Vaccines, masks, social distancing are all part of the Swiss Cheese Model which will reduce risk, but not eliminate it.
      - deleted 1y ago
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- giardini 1y ago
  consumer451 quotes Asimov: >"* nurtured by the false notion that democracy means ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’*"< But in a one-man-one-vote elective system what Asimov terms a "false notion" is true! Asimov rhetorically chose to label one side of an issue as "ignorant" and the other side as having "knowledge". But an honest statement of the notion would have been "My vote is as good as yours." This doesn't mean that ideas of right and wrong do not apply but it does mean that voting may not be the best way to choose.
  - feoren 1y ago
    You're interpreting "just as good" to mean "has equal political power", which is very obviously not what Asimov meant. But even if we take that interpretation, you're still wrong: ignorance has much more political power than truth and knowledge do, because it's not bound by the same rules. Truth is handicapped in the political game by having to, you know, be true. Lies and ignorance have no such handicap, so they're much stronger. > Asimov rhetorically chose to label one side of an issue as "ignorant" and the other side as having "knowledge" This is not "rhetorical" -- they are not mere "labels" -- and in calling them that you're perpetuating the exact problem he's describing. RFK Jr.'s position is ignorant, false, stupid, inconsistent, dangerous, idiotic, etc. etc. These are not just labels.
- exe34 1y ago
  See also Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan. I read it about 15 years ago and thought he was too pessimistic.
mvdtnz 1y ago
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- energy123 1y ago
  That used to be true 30 years ago prior to the modern polarization along educational lines. But in the current time and place, the majority of populist anti-intellectualism and antagonism to medical science is on the right.
- eximius 1y ago
  And they were also dumb. What's your point?
giardini 1y ago
[flagged]
jaimsam 1y ago
[dead]

clinical science tends to have a leftist bias towards... being accurate? proven? safe?

by bstsb 1y ago

clinical science tends to have a leftist bias towards... being accurate? proven? safe?

I know that many might read the parent comment as flippant, or politically biased, but we are witnessing the insane reversion of scientific advancement. This is not a new trend: > There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti‑intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’ - “A Cult of Ignorance” by Isaac Asimov, published on January 21, 1980 in Newsweek

giardini 1y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago
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- deleted 1y ago
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- deleted 1y ago
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- consumer451 1y ago
  Got me. I wrote a giant semi-polarized screed to reply, then I got the joke. Comedy is legal again! (Use your context tool, an agentic LLM could do better! Click on profile and then comments before you judge someone so quickly!)
refurb 1y ago
[flagged]
- ActorNightly 1y ago
  The statement "lies the government told during COVID - masks don’t work, then they work, vaccines stop transmission, then they don’t." ..is just simply not true. Nobody said masks didn't work. They said that cloth masks werent as effective as surgical masks. And it wasn't about protection of self, it was about not spreading the virus. Vaccine effectiveness was also something that was being guessed at first, and then corrected. Nothing wrong with either, as this was an unprecedented time. This distrust of government sentiment would be valid if your camp a) had actual source of truth beyond Joe Rogan , and b) didn't overwhelmingly vote for Trump who lies WAY more about everything.
  - lysp 1y ago
    Original comment was flagged, so jumping onto this one. The phrases used by @refurb are commonly repeated phrases, but they are missing nuance. Masks absolutely work, just ask any nurse who didn't catch COVID while working 12-hour shifts for weeks in a COVID ward. The issue like you said is the right type of mask, and wearing it properly. Half the time people were wearing masks with their nose poking out, or under their chin. Even wearing it fully covering - if it isn't airtight, and you haven't pinched the wired nose connection removing the small gap, it still won't work. Similar with vaccines, science isn't exact, so a statement made at the start of the pandemic is not going to be the same 12-18 months later. There were dozens of variants of COVID each with different levels of risk. A vaccine doesn't guarantee you won't catch the virus, but can minimise or reduce symptoms, reduce spread, prime your body with some antibodies for your body to start combating it sooner. So it's easy to say someone "lied". But data changes. Also, you have to make statements for the general population (lowest common denominator), not people with an educated / scientific / medical background. Vaccines, masks, social distancing are all part of the Swiss Cheese Model which will reduce risk, but not eliminate it.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
giardini 1y ago
consumer451 quotes Asimov: >"* nurtured by the false notion that democracy means ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’*"< But in a one-man-one-vote elective system what Asimov terms a "false notion" is true! Asimov rhetorically chose to label one side of an issue as "ignorant" and the other side as having "knowledge". But an honest statement of the notion would have been "My vote is as good as yours." This doesn't mean that ideas of right and wrong do not apply but it does mean that voting may not be the best way to choose.
- feoren 1y ago
  You're interpreting "just as good" to mean "has equal political power", which is very obviously not what Asimov meant. But even if we take that interpretation, you're still wrong: ignorance has much more political power than truth and knowledge do, because it's not bound by the same rules. Truth is handicapped in the political game by having to, you know, be true. Lies and ignorance have no such handicap, so they're much stronger. > Asimov rhetorically chose to label one side of an issue as "ignorant" and the other side as having "knowledge" This is not "rhetorical" -- they are not mere "labels" -- and in calling them that you're perpetuating the exact problem he's describing. RFK Jr.'s position is ignorant, false, stupid, inconsistent, dangerous, idiotic, etc. etc. These are not just labels.
exe34 1y ago
See also Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan. I read it about 15 years ago and thought he was too pessimistic.

mvdtnz 1y ago

[flagged]

energy123 1y ago
That used to be true 30 years ago prior to the modern polarization along educational lines. But in the current time and place, the majority of populist anti-intellectualism and antagonism to medical science is on the right.
eximius 1y ago
And they were also dumb. What's your point?

giardini 1y ago

[flagged]

jaimsam 1y ago

[dead]