5 ms·

It is, once again, designing interfaces based on "vibes" instead of science or principles or used feedback, optimising for looking good on screenshots and marke

It is, once again, designing interfaces based on "vibes" instead of science or principles or used feedback, optimising for looking good on screenshots and marketing materials and not for actual usability or user friendly was. With "vibes" here standing for whatever some SV asshole thinks it's cool and modern. Alegria, flat design, pastel colors, or unholy amounts of whitespace. It's been the story of the last 15 years of UI design at least.

nlarew 1y ago
Do you really think that Apple, of all companies, did a cross-platform UI refresh based entirely on vibes without considering user taste, usability, accessibility, etc? You've already judged the system as only good for "looking good on screenshots and marketing materials" when you haven't even seen anything other than the announcement.
- delfinom 1y ago
  Absolufuckingloothy. The Apple of today is nowhere near what the Apple of Steve Jobs was. Bugs galore, UX issues galore. Overall it's a mashup of various staff egos over everything.
- surgical_fire 1y ago
  > Do you really think that Apple, of all companies, did a cross-platform UI refresh based entirely on vibes without considering user taste, usability, accessibility, etc? We are talking about the same company that to make a the MCP a little bit thinner released that crap with only two USBC ports, forcing everyone to carry fucking dongles everywhere. And let's not forget that awful butterfly keyboard. So much usability, so much accessibility. No vibes, no sir.
  - nlarew 1y ago
    Perhaps they learned something from that? Look at modern MBP models which have MagSafe, HDMI, and SD card slots.
    - skyyler 1y ago
      I think the implication was that if they went on anything but vibes, they would have never removed MagSafe, HDMI, or SD card slots.
      - reaperducer 1y ago
        Mr. Vibe works for OpenAI now.
        bigyabai 1y ago
        Mr. Vibe wasn't the issue. Tim Apple was the one who gave his leash infinite slack, and he's still there calling the shots. Probably conferring equally stupid protections onto whoever replaced Ive internally. Lord only knows Altman is probably doting on him in the same way. This industry just never learns.
    - surgical_fire 1y ago
      Are you telling me that the trillion dollar company had to actually release a laptop with only two USBC ports to "learn" that people need more ports on a laptop? And you do that on a straight face on a sequence where it was claimed that they carefully consider usability and accessibility? And yes, I am aware those silly toy computers have a couple more ports nowadays, I have to use that on a daily basis for work.
- candiddevmike 1y ago
  I think you're holding it wrong
- ben_w 1y ago
  > Do you really think that Apple, of all companies, did a cross-platform UI refresh based entirely on vibes without considering user taste, usability, accessibility, etc? Yes, I think they would do that. Lots of historical examples of Apple making weird design choices for decades now. I'm old enough to remember the hockey-puck mouse on the original iMac. Also, here's a list of bugs I've personally observed over just the last two months: https://gist.github.com/BenWheatley/29a3c22203d90ae80465cdb13e0478b1 https://gist.github.com/BenWheatley/29a3c22203d90ae80465cdb1... 3.3 trillion dollar market cap, and the *clipboard* is no longer reliable. The mail badge is an unreliable count. The wallpaper sometimes disappears. The alarms don't play out of whatever speaker or headphones you're using for all your other audio.
- soulofmischief 1y ago
  Of course they would. Have you used Sequoia? It's a hot dumpster fire that's caused me unending frustration with how they've broken the bluetooth and networking stack, introduced unprecedented instability (anyone else's macbooks suddenly crashing and restarting while the lid is closed and it's in sleep mode?) and a host of other issues. Apples has been taking one step forward and two steps back with their software and design for a long time, and they have increasingly preferred form over function, and hidden, obtuse UX. If their hardware wasn't so damn good for my professional work, I wouldn't go near this child slavery enabling shitshow of a corporation. I don't know if I've ever felt as trivialized or patronized as watching someone in formal dress talk to me about how many new ways I can express myself to my friends via emoji or whatever else as I have when watching Apple keynotes. It feels like they've tried to commoditize interaction even more than Meta. It all feels so hollow. You can tell Steve is gone.
- flohofwoe 1y ago
  > Do you really think that Apple, of all companies, did a cross-platform UI refresh based entirely on vibes without considering user taste, usability, accessibility, etc? Yes, and where have you been for the last two decades? :) The last time Apple did actual UX research must have been in the late 1990s.
  - pseudalopex 1y ago
    Exposé and multi touch seem too well designed for no research.
surgical_fire 1y ago
> , designing interfaces based on "vibes" instead of science or principles or used feedback Well, this is what Apple does, and the reason I hate their devices with a passion. It always was style over substance.
- yuehhangalt 1y ago
  You must be too young to remember because a lot of the early user interface design principles, based on actual research, were pioneered by Bruce Tognazzini and Jef Raskin at Apple. Tog on Interface and Tog on Software Design were THE bibles back in the day and Apple's Human Interface Guidelines showed how a company could and should adopt consistent user experience across all of their products. It honestly saddens me how far Apple has fallen.
  - surgical_fire 1y ago
    > You must be too young to remember Hopefully. I wouldn't mind being young. I am also not a designer, so UI/UX history may be lost on me. I can only say that the only Apple product I genuinely enjoyed from a design perspective was the iPod Nano I bought sometime in early 2000s.
  - soulofmischief 1y ago
    I feel the same way about Google's design and development principles. What the fuck happened?
    - Due_Winter_5330 1y ago
      You mean how they heavily researched their latest redesign of Android? https://design.google/library/expressive-material-design-google-research https://design.google/library/expressive-material-design-goo...
      - andrepd 1y ago
        > M3 Expressive designs were overwhelmingly rated higher for attributes such as “energetic,” “emotive,” “positive vibe,” “creative,” “playful,” and “friendly.” Heavy research indeed

nlarew 1y ago

Do you really think that Apple, of all companies, did a cross-platform UI refresh based entirely on vibes without considering user taste, usability, accessibility, etc? You've already judged the system as only good for "looking good on screenshots and marketing materials" when you haven't even seen anything other than the announcement.

delfinom 1y ago
Absolufuckingloothy. The Apple of today is nowhere near what the Apple of Steve Jobs was. Bugs galore, UX issues galore. Overall it's a mashup of various staff egos over everything.
surgical_fire 1y ago
> Do you really think that Apple, of all companies, did a cross-platform UI refresh based entirely on vibes without considering user taste, usability, accessibility, etc? We are talking about the same company that to make a the MCP a little bit thinner released that crap with only two USBC ports, forcing everyone to carry fucking dongles everywhere. And let's not forget that awful butterfly keyboard. So much usability, so much accessibility. No vibes, no sir.
- nlarew 1y ago
  Perhaps they learned something from that? Look at modern MBP models which have MagSafe, HDMI, and SD card slots.
  - skyyler 1y ago
    I think the implication was that if they went on anything but vibes, they would have never removed MagSafe, HDMI, or SD card slots.
    - reaperducer 1y ago
      Mr. Vibe works for OpenAI now.
      - bigyabai 1y ago
        Mr. Vibe wasn't the issue. Tim Apple was the one who gave his leash infinite slack, and he's still there calling the shots. Probably conferring equally stupid protections onto whoever replaced Ive internally. Lord only knows Altman is probably doting on him in the same way. This industry just never learns.
  - surgical_fire 1y ago
    Are you telling me that the trillion dollar company had to actually release a laptop with only two USBC ports to "learn" that people need more ports on a laptop? And you do that on a straight face on a sequence where it was claimed that they carefully consider usability and accessibility? And yes, I am aware those silly toy computers have a couple more ports nowadays, I have to use that on a daily basis for work.
candiddevmike 1y ago
I think you're holding it wrong
ben_w 1y ago
> Do you really think that Apple, of all companies, did a cross-platform UI refresh based entirely on vibes without considering user taste, usability, accessibility, etc? Yes, I think they would do that. Lots of historical examples of Apple making weird design choices for decades now. I'm old enough to remember the hockey-puck mouse on the original iMac. Also, here's a list of bugs I've personally observed over just the last two months: https://gist.github.com/BenWheatley/29a3c22203d90ae80465cdb13e0478b1 https://gist.github.com/BenWheatley/29a3c22203d90ae80465cdb1... 3.3 trillion dollar market cap, and the *clipboard* is no longer reliable. The mail badge is an unreliable count. The wallpaper sometimes disappears. The alarms don't play out of whatever speaker or headphones you're using for all your other audio.
soulofmischief 1y ago
Of course they would. Have you used Sequoia? It's a hot dumpster fire that's caused me unending frustration with how they've broken the bluetooth and networking stack, introduced unprecedented instability (anyone else's macbooks suddenly crashing and restarting while the lid is closed and it's in sleep mode?) and a host of other issues. Apples has been taking one step forward and two steps back with their software and design for a long time, and they have increasingly preferred form over function, and hidden, obtuse UX. If their hardware wasn't so damn good for my professional work, I wouldn't go near this child slavery enabling shitshow of a corporation. I don't know if I've ever felt as trivialized or patronized as watching someone in formal dress talk to me about how many new ways I can express myself to my friends via emoji or whatever else as I have when watching Apple keynotes. It feels like they've tried to commoditize interaction even more than Meta. It all feels so hollow. You can tell Steve is gone.
flohofwoe 1y ago
> Do you really think that Apple, of all companies, did a cross-platform UI refresh based entirely on vibes without considering user taste, usability, accessibility, etc? Yes, and where have you been for the last two decades? :) The last time Apple did actual UX research must have been in the late 1990s.
- pseudalopex 1y ago
  Exposé and multi touch seem too well designed for no research.

surgical_fire 1y ago

> , designing interfaces based on "vibes" instead of science or principles or used feedback Well, this is what Apple does, and the reason I hate their devices with a passion. It always was style over substance.

yuehhangalt 1y ago
You must be too young to remember because a lot of the early user interface design principles, based on actual research, were pioneered by Bruce Tognazzini and Jef Raskin at Apple. Tog on Interface and Tog on Software Design were THE bibles back in the day and Apple's Human Interface Guidelines showed how a company could and should adopt consistent user experience across all of their products. It honestly saddens me how far Apple has fallen.
- surgical_fire 1y ago
  > You must be too young to remember Hopefully. I wouldn't mind being young. I am also not a designer, so UI/UX history may be lost on me. I can only say that the only Apple product I genuinely enjoyed from a design perspective was the iPod Nano I bought sometime in early 2000s.
- soulofmischief 1y ago
  I feel the same way about Google's design and development principles. What the fuck happened?
  - Due_Winter_5330 1y ago
    You mean how they heavily researched their latest redesign of Android? https://design.google/library/expressive-material-design-google-research https://design.google/library/expressive-material-design-goo...
    - andrepd 1y ago
      > M3 Expressive designs were overwhelmingly rated higher for attributes such as “energetic,” “emotive,” “positive vibe,” “creative,” “playful,” and “friendly.” Heavy research indeed