4 ms·

It's barely worth showing up to work now, how are they going to motivate anyone to maintain any of this stuff?

bryanlarsen 1y ago
To be sustainable, UBI has to be sub-poverty levels. Anything more than about $1500 is not monetarily feasible. Not very many people are going to be happy living on $1500/month. Most people will keep working.
- msgodel 1y ago
  I'd be fine with half that. What luxuries justify spending 8 hours a day dealing with insane corporate bullshit?
  - hollerith 1y ago
    A wife and a couple of kids. Having more options in life, e.g., to pick up and move.
    - msgodel 1y ago
      No one is doing that anymore regardless.
    - toomuchtodo 1y ago
      https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/50th-edition-spring-2025 https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/50th-edition-spring-2025 ("Traditional life goals are shifting, with only 48% of young Americans saying having children is important") https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2025/msu-study-finds-number-of-us-nonparents-who-never-want-children-is-growing https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2025/msu-study-finds-number-of... (“We found that the percentage of nonparents who don’t want any children rose from 14% in 2002 to 29% in 2023,” said Jennifer Watling Neal, professor in MSU’s psychology department and co-author of the study. “During the same period, the percent of nonparents who plan to have children in the future fell from 79% to 59%.”) https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-data https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-... ("64% of young women say they just don't want children, compared to 50% of men.") A record-high share of 40-year-olds in the U.S. have never been married - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/28/a-record-high-share-of-40-year-olds-in-the-us-have-never-been-married/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/28/a-record-... The childfree are ungovernable - https://beneaththepavement.substack.com/p/the-childfree-are-ungovernable-capitalism https://beneaththepavement.substack.com/p/the-childfree-are-... (us specific, ymmv)
- normalaccess 1y ago
  Who is going to pay for it?
  - bryanlarsen 1y ago
    Taxpayers. You set the rate so that the average taxpayer pays as much extra in taxes as they receive in UBI.
- IAmBroom 1y ago
  Why not? Serious question. The average per-person income is already above that.
  - bryanlarsen 1y ago
    You have to pay for UBI somehow. You basically have two options: pay for it through taxes, or pay for it by printing money. If you rule out the second option because you don't want hyperinflation, then you have to pay for it through taxes. Then it's a simple exercise: how much can you increase taxes to pay for UBI? You can't increase taxes above 100%, so UBI has to be less than the average per-person income, and we still need to fund defence and other essentials, so it has to be significantly less.

To be sustainable, UBI has to be sub-poverty levels. Anything more than about $1500 is not monetarily feasible. Not very many people are going to be happy living on $1500/month. Most people will keep working.

msgodel 1y ago
I'd be fine with half that. What luxuries justify spending 8 hours a day dealing with insane corporate bullshit?
- hollerith 1y ago
  A wife and a couple of kids. Having more options in life, e.g., to pick up and move.
  - msgodel 1y ago
    No one is doing that anymore regardless.
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/50th-edition-spring-2025 https://iop.harvard.edu/youth-poll/50th-edition-spring-2025 ("Traditional life goals are shifting, with only 48% of young Americans saying having children is important") https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2025/msu-study-finds-number-of-us-nonparents-who-never-want-children-is-growing https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2025/msu-study-finds-number-of... (“We found that the percentage of nonparents who don’t want any children rose from 14% in 2002 to 29% in 2023,” said Jennifer Watling Neal, professor in MSU’s psychology department and co-author of the study. “During the same period, the percent of nonparents who plan to have children in the future fell from 79% to 59%.”) https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-data https://www.axios.com/2024/07/25/adults-no-children-why-pew-... ("64% of young women say they just don't want children, compared to 50% of men.") A record-high share of 40-year-olds in the U.S. have never been married - https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/28/a-record-high-share-of-40-year-olds-in-the-us-have-never-been-married/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/28/a-record-... The childfree are ungovernable - https://beneaththepavement.substack.com/p/the-childfree-are-ungovernable-capitalism https://beneaththepavement.substack.com/p/the-childfree-are-... (us specific, ymmv)
normalaccess 1y ago
Who is going to pay for it?
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  Taxpayers. You set the rate so that the average taxpayer pays as much extra in taxes as they receive in UBI.
IAmBroom 1y ago
Why not? Serious question. The average per-person income is already above that.
- bryanlarsen 1y ago
  You have to pay for UBI somehow. You basically have two options: pay for it through taxes, or pay for it by printing money. If you rule out the second option because you don't want hyperinflation, then you have to pay for it through taxes. Then it's a simple exercise: how much can you increase taxes to pay for UBI? You can't increase taxes above 100%, so UBI has to be less than the average per-person income, and we still need to fund defence and other essentials, so it has to be significantly less.