7 ms·

This looks horrible to be honest. This new liquid glass will lead to liquid brain, because my brain will be melting trying to process all that visual mess dail

This looks horrible to be honest. This new liquid glass will lead to liquid brain, because my brain will be melting trying to process all that visual mess daily. Now of course, I'll have to experience this new design in practice to be sure, but judging from the screenshots it looks really hard on the eyes. Hopefully they'll allow the translucency to be customized. Apple had a good run, I've genuinely enjoyed using their platforms daily, but I'm afraid they're dropping the ball now. I guess on a long enough timeline, every company is bound to disappoint. It's hard to get it right, consistently.

JKCalhoun 1y ago
I agree that it seems to be a move toward lower contrast. I prefer higher contrast.
vFunct 1y ago
I like it a lot. Reminds me of the OG Mac OS X Aqua theme, except a more reactive/dynamic version of it to account for accessibility. Refreshing counter to the brutalist styles that were trending. The problem with brutalist styles is that they tend to be busy, which becomes confusing and unintuitive to new users. This seems like it would help separate elements for easier focus, to make things more obvious.
- yuehhangalt 1y ago
  Apple learned a lot of lessons with Aqua and eventually dialed back the translucency. Unfortunately, they seem to have forgotten those lessons.
- kergonath 1y ago
  > Reminds me of the OG Mac OS X Aqua theme What I find surreal is that most comments are exactly like those back in the day, too! (Pinstripes, what were they thinking? Glossiness is distracting! Where's my platinum? This is a stupid toy!) Anyway, this will be refined and fine tuned and we will all be fine.
  - eviks 1y ago
    You can't "fine tune" fundamental flaws away
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    Platinum's pinstripes and Aqua's glossy buttons didn't interfere with contrast. That's the golden rule - as long as content is legible, you can go off doing whatever sorts of cute baffles you want as a bonus. The pinstripes created texture that defined the titlebar in Platinum, Aqua's color emphasized interactive elements using visual contrast. In my opinion Aqua looks awful, but I do accept that it was an extremely usable interface for people with weak vision or little computer experience. The same can be said for Comic Sans and it's deliberate ugliness. How will those same audiences react when they see a glassy squircle pop up on their iPhone? What is it a metaphor for? Is it a button? A notification toast? An entry window? An app? A widget? Did they forget to put on their glasses this morning? Is it interactive, are there gestures or buttons to close it? How do you call someone from this screen? This is objectively bad design. I would argue you don't know what made Platinum and Aqua great if you're comparing those complaints to this clown vomit.
    - kergonath 1y ago
      > Aqua's color emphasized interactive elements using visual contrast. There were loads of complaints about readability with Aqua, particularly of the menus and the windows title bars, both of which were translucent and had pinstripes. Briefly discussed here for example: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/05/mac-os-x-revisited/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/05/mac-os-x-revisited/ . There was also the uproar at Leopard’s transparent menu bar and glossy dock, discussed here: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/10/mac-os-x-10-5/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/10/mac-os-x-10-5/ . All these were over the top initially and were toned down and tweaked over time. > How will those same audiences react when they see a glassy squircle pop up on their iPhone? It’s a button. It has a shape, some physical character, and when you poke it wiggles and does something. It looks miles better than the label-button-links things that looked all identical in iOS 7 and that still plague modern design. > This is objectively bad design. I would argue you don't know what made Platinum and Aqua great if you're comparing those complaints to this clown vomit. I did not really like Platinum (I spent quite a lot of time with Kaleidoscope, which I miss very much). I really liked Aqua, though, despite its occasional brushed metal excesses. I would not mind going back to Lion, when they toned down the glossiness they introduced in Leopard. I think that UI was very elegant. But I have to admit there is a kind of playfulness with the concept of liquid UI that is intriguing. I love how the Dynamic Island reacts and behaves as it splits, grows, and shrink. I think I like it better than iOS 5-era glossy everything, and definitely more than iOS 7+. I am willing to admit that I have bad taste, but I am optimistic about the possibilities with the concepts they showed. That said, I swear I read the clown vomit but about Aqua back in 2001. Some things never change.
pzo 1y ago
Same. I was kind of slowly preparing myself that I might be switching to android and it seems this might be the final straw. Will wait until Sept to see how new iphone and google pixels will look like but most likely I will do the transition (even though been developing for iOS for more than 10 years.
- plainOldText 1y ago
  Sure, it's reasonable to consider a switch. But while Android devices have come a long way in terms of physical design, capabilities, UI/UX, etc, out of the box Apple still offers a more comprehensive, user friendly and privacy focused security solution: lockdown, tighter controls of hardware/software integration, etc. So there's that.
  - leakycap 1y ago
    Agreed; I will probably be staying with iOS no matter how garish it becomes - Apple has the foundations right. I can't say I feel the same about macOS before; as a user since the early 1990s, I'm likely moving to Linux rather than Liquid Glass for my personal computer.
    - wpm 1y ago
      Liquid Glass looks better on iPad and iPhone. On the Mac it is offensive. Vulgar. Disgusting. Loathsome.
      - leakycap 1y ago
        I agree. I installed the beta and after just a few hours, I can tell this won't work for my eyes. It's like staring into a chrome bumper while trying to use your computer. But also, it's see-through.
  - SlowTao 1y ago
    It is a shame because Android has everything they need to be just as good but its fragmentation as a whole just gets in the way of its potential. I have been using android for maybe 11-12 years and once locked down it great for me. But I suspect less than 1% of users would use these things like this.
rollcat 1y ago
I think it's time for me to look back at Linux. (*Looks at Gnome.*) Hm, they're getting worse faster than Apple does. Never mind.
- lyu07282 1y ago
  The damage Gnome does to the reputation of Linux is surreal
  - rollcat 1y ago
    True. They're stuck in between badly aping Apple, trying too hard to do their own thing, and being toxic to the rest of the developer community. They're not a trillion dollar company. Sure, many projects would do well with more decisive decision-making, but the strength of free software comes from community and collaboration.
    - wirybeige 1y ago
      I've found GNOME developers to be pleasant to work with & I enjoy the experience I have with the DE.
      - rollcat 1y ago
        <https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/217 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/217> TL;DR: if you want window decorations, link with libadwaita. SDL ended up linking with libdecor. You know how when you use a Qt app in Gnome, it looks out of place? Now even the window decorations look inconsistent from one another.
        wirybeige 1y ago
        I'm well aware of this issue. I don't expect windows to look the same to each other. I like that the title bar can have other content in it other than just the app name and the close button. For that reason alone I avoid Qt apps, as almost none draw their own title bar. Qt apps aren't even consistent among themselves in theming/style, for example the only apps that look in place on KDE are specifically made with KDE in mind. I don't understand where the "consistency" obsession comes from, all these apps use different tool kits and will look different regardless.
yuehhangalt 1y ago
Agreed. I've used Macs since 1986 and at one point worked for Apple. I used to make the same jokes about Linux on the desktop as everyone and yet I see myself seriously considering it more every day.
- username223 1y ago
  I never worked for Apple, but I've used mostly Macs since System 6, and am feeling the same frustration with their software. Unfortunately their laptops are way better than anything else out there, so I'm forced to tolerate it. I ran Linux on a PowerBook for awhile, but it was janky, and it seems like that has not changed. OS X is still basically Unix, so I'll go on running the Unix stuff I need, and turn off the lickable distractions to the extent I can.
- simgt 1y ago
  I recently switched to Linux Mint on a makeshift PC and it feels a bit like going back to Snow Leopard. It's snappy, pleasant to look at and has all the necessary modern features I need. Very surprisingly and unlike everything I experienced before on Linux desktops, it all worked out of the box (plus a few extra clicks on a GUI to get some proprietary drivers).
prashnts 1y ago
Reduce Transparency in Accessibility settings removes the glass effect, but I believe has been updated to be closer to the translucent effects in current iOS.
- stock_toaster 1y ago
  I find the "reduce motion" toggle to be a more pleasant experience on iOS as well.
  - folmar 1y ago
    Also this is way better compared to Android, where "remove animations" make apps feel like a dumpster fire, many of them lose parts of UI that were animated instead of showing them statically, feedback for touching gets often lost, things are waiting for animation so you are still stuck waiting a second or two for nothing, etc.
- thepryz 1y ago
  It's sad when so many settings people use to make Apple's products better/more usable seem to always be hidden in Accessibility. I'm sure that says something.
  - Gigachad 1y ago
    That building for accessibility helps more than just disabled people?
crazygringo 1y ago
> trying to process all that visual mess daily. That's exactly the thing, that's what I don't get. Apple's brand is all about simplicity and visual clarity. This is a visual mess. We've gone from clean delineated color areas to... slop? I really expected them to use subtle glass and shadow effects, but with minimal translucency. Heck, a lot of this is barely even translucency, more like transparency. I'm really surprised, because I didn't expect Apple to produce a design language that so easily turns into seemingly visual chaos.
- bigyabai 1y ago
  > I didn't expect Apple to produce a design language that so easily turns into seemingly visual chaos. I don't understand how anyone can act surprised anymore. Seriously. The App Store is an absolute mess, and Apple seems to be okay with it because it makes them money. Same goes for Apple News, Apple Music, AppleTV+, Apple iCloud, Apple Fitness+ and Apple Arcade. To say nothing of the quality of these apps (for their benefit), it's brand dilution. Am I supposed to believe that MacOS and iOS are spared from Apple's attention being divided into a hundred pieces? Am I supposed to expect them to invest in high-quality tentpole software when their logo is the only thing required to make people spend money? At some point, consumers have to distinguish between the identity that Apple markets to them, and what Apple's actual impact is on the carelessness of modern design. People have been saying this since 2013, Apple's new design languages aren't even close to the HIGs from the Macs of yore. Liquid Glass has been destined to fail ever since, it's an iteration on iOS7 and not an interface people actually like.
xmddmx 1y ago
Even the non transparent stuff looks bad - a plain Finder window: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macos-tahoe-26-0-beta-1-bug-fixes-changes-and-more.2458461/post-33948647 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macos-tahoe-26-0-beta-1...
- bigyabai 1y ago
  Here I was, thinking it couldn't get any worse than Big Sur like a fucking moron.
- runlevel1 1y ago
  Oh dear... That's worse than I expected.
- Clamchop 1y ago
  Did they "squircle" the window? I've been enjoying the look of the liquid glass thing but this looks unserious, toy-like.
jmb99 1y ago
> Apple had a good run, I've genuinely enjoyed using their platforms daily, but I'm afraid they're dropping the ball now. I haven't owned a (personal) Mac since High Sierra. The UI had been going downhill since Yosemite in my opinion, but gradually; it took a nosedive with Big Sur (I think that's the one that introduced all the SwiftUI apps?) to the point that I realized I probably wouldn't own another Mac until they figured out that a Mac is a computer, not an iPad. Looks like they still haven't yet. That being said, I believe that 10.5-10.9 is probably somewhere close to what peak computing looks like. It's not perfect but it makes sense to some degree. I had no problem teaching people of any technological skill level how to use Snow Leopard or Lion; and not just getting by, properly becoming competent computer users. On the other hand, I've been watching my parents (both of whom have been using computers since the late 70s) slowly lose the ability to "understand" both modern macOS and iOS, and are more and more frequently struggling to find old and new features and functionality (like being able to see all of their emails on their phone). It's disappointing really. For a while I couldn't stand using Windows and regular Linux desktop distros were too fiddly to be useful, and Mac really was the best option for "I just want to do X" with the least friction. Nowadays, Windows sucks for a whole host of reasons, and the Linux desktop is more usable but still Linux, and apparently Mac has decided to shoot itself in the head. If my grandmother asked me what computer to replace her Mac Mini with if it died right now, I really don't think I'd have an answer.

JKCalhoun 1y ago

I agree that it seems to be a move toward lower contrast. I prefer higher contrast.

vFunct 1y ago

I like it a lot. Reminds me of the OG Mac OS X Aqua theme, except a more reactive/dynamic version of it to account for accessibility. Refreshing counter to the brutalist styles that were trending. The problem with brutalist styles is that they tend to be busy, which becomes confusing and unintuitive to new users. This seems like it would help separate elements for easier focus, to make things more obvious.

yuehhangalt 1y ago
Apple learned a lot of lessons with Aqua and eventually dialed back the translucency. Unfortunately, they seem to have forgotten those lessons.
kergonath 1y ago
> Reminds me of the OG Mac OS X Aqua theme What I find surreal is that most comments are exactly like those back in the day, too! (Pinstripes, what were they thinking? Glossiness is distracting! Where's my platinum? This is a stupid toy!) Anyway, this will be refined and fine tuned and we will all be fine.
- eviks 1y ago
  You can't "fine tune" fundamental flaws away
- bigyabai 1y ago
  Platinum's pinstripes and Aqua's glossy buttons didn't interfere with contrast. That's the golden rule - as long as content is legible, you can go off doing whatever sorts of cute baffles you want as a bonus. The pinstripes created texture that defined the titlebar in Platinum, Aqua's color emphasized interactive elements using visual contrast. In my opinion Aqua looks awful, but I do accept that it was an extremely usable interface for people with weak vision or little computer experience. The same can be said for Comic Sans and it's deliberate ugliness. How will those same audiences react when they see a glassy squircle pop up on their iPhone? What is it a metaphor for? Is it a button? A notification toast? An entry window? An app? A widget? Did they forget to put on their glasses this morning? Is it interactive, are there gestures or buttons to close it? How do you call someone from this screen? This is objectively bad design. I would argue you don't know what made Platinum and Aqua great if you're comparing those complaints to this clown vomit.
  - kergonath 1y ago
    > Aqua's color emphasized interactive elements using visual contrast. There were loads of complaints about readability with Aqua, particularly of the menus and the windows title bars, both of which were translucent and had pinstripes. Briefly discussed here for example: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/05/mac-os-x-revisited/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/05/mac-os-x-revisited/ . There was also the uproar at Leopard’s transparent menu bar and glossy dock, discussed here: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/10/mac-os-x-10-5/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/10/mac-os-x-10-5/ . All these were over the top initially and were toned down and tweaked over time. > How will those same audiences react when they see a glassy squircle pop up on their iPhone? It’s a button. It has a shape, some physical character, and when you poke it wiggles and does something. It looks miles better than the label-button-links things that looked all identical in iOS 7 and that still plague modern design. > This is objectively bad design. I would argue you don't know what made Platinum and Aqua great if you're comparing those complaints to this clown vomit. I did not really like Platinum (I spent quite a lot of time with Kaleidoscope, which I miss very much). I really liked Aqua, though, despite its occasional brushed metal excesses. I would not mind going back to Lion, when they toned down the glossiness they introduced in Leopard. I think that UI was very elegant. But I have to admit there is a kind of playfulness with the concept of liquid UI that is intriguing. I love how the Dynamic Island reacts and behaves as it splits, grows, and shrink. I think I like it better than iOS 5-era glossy everything, and definitely more than iOS 7+. I am willing to admit that I have bad taste, but I am optimistic about the possibilities with the concepts they showed. That said, I swear I read the clown vomit but about Aqua back in 2001. Some things never change.

pzo 1y ago

Same. I was kind of slowly preparing myself that I might be switching to android and it seems this might be the final straw. Will wait until Sept to see how new iphone and google pixels will look like but most likely I will do the transition (even though been developing for iOS for more than 10 years.

plainOldText 1y ago
Sure, it's reasonable to consider a switch. But while Android devices have come a long way in terms of physical design, capabilities, UI/UX, etc, out of the box Apple still offers a more comprehensive, user friendly and privacy focused security solution: lockdown, tighter controls of hardware/software integration, etc. So there's that.
- leakycap 1y ago
  Agreed; I will probably be staying with iOS no matter how garish it becomes - Apple has the foundations right. I can't say I feel the same about macOS before; as a user since the early 1990s, I'm likely moving to Linux rather than Liquid Glass for my personal computer.
  - wpm 1y ago
    Liquid Glass looks better on iPad and iPhone. On the Mac it is offensive. Vulgar. Disgusting. Loathsome.
    - leakycap 1y ago
      I agree. I installed the beta and after just a few hours, I can tell this won't work for my eyes. It's like staring into a chrome bumper while trying to use your computer. But also, it's see-through.
- SlowTao 1y ago
  It is a shame because Android has everything they need to be just as good but its fragmentation as a whole just gets in the way of its potential. I have been using android for maybe 11-12 years and once locked down it great for me. But I suspect less than 1% of users would use these things like this.

rollcat 1y ago

I think it's time for me to look back at Linux. (*Looks at Gnome.*) Hm, they're getting worse faster than Apple does. Never mind.

lyu07282 1y ago
The damage Gnome does to the reputation of Linux is surreal
- rollcat 1y ago
  True. They're stuck in between badly aping Apple, trying too hard to do their own thing, and being toxic to the rest of the developer community. They're not a trillion dollar company. Sure, many projects would do well with more decisive decision-making, but the strength of free software comes from community and collaboration.
  - wirybeige 1y ago
    I've found GNOME developers to be pleasant to work with & I enjoy the experience I have with the DE.
    - rollcat 1y ago
      <https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/217 https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/issues/217> TL;DR: if you want window decorations, link with libadwaita. SDL ended up linking with libdecor. You know how when you use a Qt app in Gnome, it looks out of place? Now even the window decorations look inconsistent from one another.
      - wirybeige 1y ago
        I'm well aware of this issue. I don't expect windows to look the same to each other. I like that the title bar can have other content in it other than just the app name and the close button. For that reason alone I avoid Qt apps, as almost none draw their own title bar. Qt apps aren't even consistent among themselves in theming/style, for example the only apps that look in place on KDE are specifically made with KDE in mind. I don't understand where the "consistency" obsession comes from, all these apps use different tool kits and will look different regardless.

yuehhangalt 1y ago

Agreed. I've used Macs since 1986 and at one point worked for Apple. I used to make the same jokes about Linux on the desktop as everyone and yet I see myself seriously considering it more every day.

username223 1y ago
I never worked for Apple, but I've used mostly Macs since System 6, and am feeling the same frustration with their software. Unfortunately their laptops are way better than anything else out there, so I'm forced to tolerate it. I ran Linux on a PowerBook for awhile, but it was janky, and it seems like that has not changed. OS X is still basically Unix, so I'll go on running the Unix stuff I need, and turn off the lickable distractions to the extent I can.
simgt 1y ago
I recently switched to Linux Mint on a makeshift PC and it feels a bit like going back to Snow Leopard. It's snappy, pleasant to look at and has all the necessary modern features I need. Very surprisingly and unlike everything I experienced before on Linux desktops, it all worked out of the box (plus a few extra clicks on a GUI to get some proprietary drivers).

prashnts 1y ago

Reduce Transparency in Accessibility settings removes the glass effect, but I believe has been updated to be closer to the translucent effects in current iOS.

stock_toaster 1y ago
I find the "reduce motion" toggle to be a more pleasant experience on iOS as well.
- folmar 1y ago
  Also this is way better compared to Android, where "remove animations" make apps feel like a dumpster fire, many of them lose parts of UI that were animated instead of showing them statically, feedback for touching gets often lost, things are waiting for animation so you are still stuck waiting a second or two for nothing, etc.
thepryz 1y ago
It's sad when so many settings people use to make Apple's products better/more usable seem to always be hidden in Accessibility. I'm sure that says something.
- Gigachad 1y ago
  That building for accessibility helps more than just disabled people?

crazygringo 1y ago

> trying to process all that visual mess daily. That's exactly the thing, that's what I don't get. Apple's brand is all about simplicity and visual clarity. This is a visual mess. We've gone from clean delineated color areas to... slop? I really expected them to use subtle glass and shadow effects, but with minimal translucency. Heck, a lot of this is barely even translucency, more like transparency. I'm really surprised, because I didn't expect Apple to produce a design language that so easily turns into seemingly visual chaos.

bigyabai 1y ago
> I didn't expect Apple to produce a design language that so easily turns into seemingly visual chaos. I don't understand how anyone can act surprised anymore. Seriously. The App Store is an absolute mess, and Apple seems to be okay with it because it makes them money. Same goes for Apple News, Apple Music, AppleTV+, Apple iCloud, Apple Fitness+ and Apple Arcade. To say nothing of the quality of these apps (for their benefit), it's brand dilution. Am I supposed to believe that MacOS and iOS are spared from Apple's attention being divided into a hundred pieces? Am I supposed to expect them to invest in high-quality tentpole software when their logo is the only thing required to make people spend money? At some point, consumers have to distinguish between the identity that Apple markets to them, and what Apple's actual impact is on the carelessness of modern design. People have been saying this since 2013, Apple's new design languages aren't even close to the HIGs from the Macs of yore. Liquid Glass has been destined to fail ever since, it's an iteration on iOS7 and not an interface people actually like.

xmddmx 1y ago

Even the non transparent stuff looks bad - a plain Finder window: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macos-tahoe-26-0-beta-1-bug-fixes-changes-and-more.2458461/post-33948647 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/macos-tahoe-26-0-beta-1...

bigyabai 1y ago
Here I was, thinking it couldn't get any worse than Big Sur like a fucking moron.
runlevel1 1y ago
Oh dear... That's worse than I expected.
Clamchop 1y ago
Did they "squircle" the window? I've been enjoying the look of the liquid glass thing but this looks unserious, toy-like.

jmb99 1y ago

> Apple had a good run, I've genuinely enjoyed using their platforms daily, but I'm afraid they're dropping the ball now. I haven't owned a (personal) Mac since High Sierra. The UI had been going downhill since Yosemite in my opinion, but gradually; it took a nosedive with Big Sur (I think that's the one that introduced all the SwiftUI apps?) to the point that I realized I probably wouldn't own another Mac until they figured out that a Mac is a computer, not an iPad. Looks like they still haven't yet. That being said, I believe that 10.5-10.9 is probably somewhere close to what peak computing looks like. It's not perfect but it makes sense to some degree. I had no problem teaching people of any technological skill level how to use Snow Leopard or Lion; and not just getting by, properly becoming competent computer users. On the other hand, I've been watching my parents (both of whom have been using computers since the late 70s) slowly lose the ability to "understand" both modern macOS and iOS, and are more and more frequently struggling to find old and new features and functionality (like being able to see all of their emails on their phone). It's disappointing really. For a while I couldn't stand using Windows and regular Linux desktop distros were too fiddly to be useful, and Mac really was the best option for "I just want to do X" with the least friction. Nowadays, Windows sucks for a whole host of reasons, and the Linux desktop is more usable but still Linux, and apparently Mac has decided to shoot itself in the head. If my grandmother asked me what computer to replace her Mac Mini with if it died right now, I really don't think I'd have an answer.