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Its a tradition, they do everything manual like the Incas did it. They don't like using "wheels" or any sort of technology as it would ruin the tradition. You c

Its a tradition, they do everything manual like the Incas did it. They don't like using "wheels" or any sort of technology as it would ruin the tradition. You can see the process here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQl6geeY7CM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQl6geeY7CM Oh- and it involves a lot of people not a 1 man job.

taeric 1y ago
Awesome, thanks for the video! And I'd expect anything like this to be more than a 1 man job! Apologies if I implied otherwise. I'd expect even using wheels for the turning that you would need more than a single person. It is obnoxious how hard it is to search on why they would have never invented a wheel for the spinning of thread. AI seems to insist that spinning wheels are directly the result of carting wheels. I'd expect even wheels for a pulley system would have helped with the hanging process.
- wahern 1y ago
  The Inca had wheels, they just didn't use them for much. There are Incan toys with wheels, for example. AFAIU the consensus opinion is that carting wheels never took hold in pre-Columbian America because of a lack of draft animals. The Inca used spindles for spinning thread, which apparently was sufficient for their needs. And the wheelbarrow is, interestingly (TIL), a relatively recent Old World invention, with the earliest depictions from 2nd century AD China. Even the chariot didn't arrive in the Old World until the early 2nd millennia BC. And the chariot wasn't invented by the Egyptians or Chinese, but by peoples in the Eurasian Steppe. (Who probably not coincidentally were some of the first to domestic horses? More primitive wheeled carts were much older but also contemporaneous with emergence of other domesticated draft animals like oxen, I think. Smaller animals can draft, but the utility is severely diminished beyond very favorable terrain.)
  - WalterBright 1y ago
    Many "obvious" inventions take a very long time to happen. For example, the very slow evolution of boats. It took forever to come up with the keel. Also the fork. Rigid, authoritarian societies also seem to have a lot of problems inventing new things, especially disruptive things. James Burke's "Connections" is a great history of invention.
    - taeric 1y ago
      Totally fair. Direct to this one, you could probably look at the evolution of rope and generally fabric. I imagine without modern techniques, many of the clothes that we wear would probably not be possible? Certainly not at the scale that we have them.
      - WalterBright 1y ago
        The scale of textiles happened because of factory weaving machines. Before 1800, making thread and fabrics was all done by hand, and consumed an enormous amount of time.
        taeric 1y ago
        That is the scale. My assumption was more asking if you also needed mechanical help to get fine threads?
        ChainOfFools 1y ago
        You could certainly get help that was 'mechanical' but which did not involve machines or robots as we think of them today. More of an older, original definition of robot.
        taeric 1y ago
        Without wheels, people can't spin thread as fine as they can with. Full stop. Directly to this thread, nobody is claiming they didn't use tools. The question is specifically why they never invented a specific tool. My specific question is why the cart wheel needs to be a prerequisite to a spinning wheel. The common answer is that you don't need carting wheels without drafting animals. My question is why does that preclude pulleys and spinning wheels? They seem they should be unrelated. Pulleys, in particular, seem an extension of levers more than of carting wheels.
        1y ago
  - taeric 1y ago
    Even spinning wheels use a spindle. The question would be why they didn't invent the use of a wheel to help with the spinning portion of the task? But, yeah, my short dives show the same. It is generally held that carting wheels weren't useful due to lack of draft animals. I just find that reason awkward with how useful manual applications of the wheel are for me. Dolleys and wheelbarrows are the easiest example, of course. But pulley systems in general are super useful. And don't, necessarily, need a draft animal.
    - MangoToupe 1y ago
      > The question would be why they didn't invent the use of a wheel to help with the spinning portion of the task? They did have spinning pottery wheels, just not load-bearing ones.
      - taeric 1y ago
        So is the claim that they did not invent the wheel pretty strictly for use in carts? Still seems a little surprising they would not have invented pulleys. They clearly had good experience with ropes.
  - MangoToupe 1y ago
    > AFAIU the consensus opinion is that carting wheels never took hold in pre-Columbian America because of a lack of draft animals. On hilly terrain, wheels simply aren't the best thing to use—you can't fully sustain the weight easily pulling up the hill as opposed to standing on the incline. Meanwhile we have tons of evidence of people used as couriers for relatively heavy items with a specific sort of framed backpack. The lack of pack animals is a real thing, but domesticated horses would have seriously struggled even if they magically appeared in the pre-colonial incan empire. Even today, transportation by donkey sans-cart is often the easiest way to move a bunch of stuff around the andes without prepared roads.

taeric 1y ago

Awesome, thanks for the video! And I'd expect anything like this to be more than a 1 man job! Apologies if I implied otherwise. I'd expect even using wheels for the turning that you would need more than a single person. It is obnoxious how hard it is to search on why they would have never invented a wheel for the spinning of thread. AI seems to insist that spinning wheels are directly the result of carting wheels. I'd expect even wheels for a pulley system would have helped with the hanging process.

wahern 1y ago
The Inca had wheels, they just didn't use them for much. There are Incan toys with wheels, for example. AFAIU the consensus opinion is that carting wheels never took hold in pre-Columbian America because of a lack of draft animals. The Inca used spindles for spinning thread, which apparently was sufficient for their needs. And the wheelbarrow is, interestingly (TIL), a relatively recent Old World invention, with the earliest depictions from 2nd century AD China. Even the chariot didn't arrive in the Old World until the early 2nd millennia BC. And the chariot wasn't invented by the Egyptians or Chinese, but by peoples in the Eurasian Steppe. (Who probably not coincidentally were some of the first to domestic horses? More primitive wheeled carts were much older but also contemporaneous with emergence of other domesticated draft animals like oxen, I think. Smaller animals can draft, but the utility is severely diminished beyond very favorable terrain.)
- WalterBright 1y ago
  Many "obvious" inventions take a very long time to happen. For example, the very slow evolution of boats. It took forever to come up with the keel. Also the fork. Rigid, authoritarian societies also seem to have a lot of problems inventing new things, especially disruptive things. James Burke's "Connections" is a great history of invention.
  - taeric 1y ago
    Totally fair. Direct to this one, you could probably look at the evolution of rope and generally fabric. I imagine without modern techniques, many of the clothes that we wear would probably not be possible? Certainly not at the scale that we have them.
    - WalterBright 1y ago
      The scale of textiles happened because of factory weaving machines. Before 1800, making thread and fabrics was all done by hand, and consumed an enormous amount of time.
      - taeric 1y ago
        That is the scale. My assumption was more asking if you also needed mechanical help to get fine threads?
        ChainOfFools 1y ago
        You could certainly get help that was 'mechanical' but which did not involve machines or robots as we think of them today. More of an older, original definition of robot.
        taeric 1y ago
        Without wheels, people can't spin thread as fine as they can with. Full stop. Directly to this thread, nobody is claiming they didn't use tools. The question is specifically why they never invented a specific tool. My specific question is why the cart wheel needs to be a prerequisite to a spinning wheel. The common answer is that you don't need carting wheels without drafting animals. My question is why does that preclude pulleys and spinning wheels? They seem they should be unrelated. Pulleys, in particular, seem an extension of levers more than of carting wheels.
        1y ago
- taeric 1y ago
  Even spinning wheels use a spindle. The question would be why they didn't invent the use of a wheel to help with the spinning portion of the task? But, yeah, my short dives show the same. It is generally held that carting wheels weren't useful due to lack of draft animals. I just find that reason awkward with how useful manual applications of the wheel are for me. Dolleys and wheelbarrows are the easiest example, of course. But pulley systems in general are super useful. And don't, necessarily, need a draft animal.
  - MangoToupe 1y ago
    > The question would be why they didn't invent the use of a wheel to help with the spinning portion of the task? They did have spinning pottery wheels, just not load-bearing ones.
    - taeric 1y ago
      So is the claim that they did not invent the wheel pretty strictly for use in carts? Still seems a little surprising they would not have invented pulleys. They clearly had good experience with ropes.
- MangoToupe 1y ago
  > AFAIU the consensus opinion is that carting wheels never took hold in pre-Columbian America because of a lack of draft animals. On hilly terrain, wheels simply aren't the best thing to use—you can't fully sustain the weight easily pulling up the hill as opposed to standing on the incline. Meanwhile we have tons of evidence of people used as couriers for relatively heavy items with a specific sort of framed backpack. The lack of pack animals is a real thing, but domesticated horses would have seriously struggled even if they magically appeared in the pre-colonial incan empire. Even today, transportation by donkey sans-cart is often the easiest way to move a bunch of stuff around the andes without prepared roads.