4 ms·

Just tried asking “what is the maximum carryon size for an American Airlines flight DFW-CDG” and it used a webs search, provided the correct answer, and provide

Just tried asking “what is the maximum carryon size for an American Airlines flight DFW-CDG” and it used a webs search, provided the correct answer, and provided links to both the airline and FAA sites. Why wouldn’t I use it like this?

adrian_b 1y ago
I do not see which is the added benefit provided by the LLM in such cases, instead of doing yourself that web search, and for free.
- JimDabell 1y ago
  I just tried that search on Google. The first thing I saw was the AI summary. Underneath that was a third-party site. Underneath that was “People also ask” with five different questions. And then underneath that was the link to the American Airlines site. I followed the line to the official site. I was presented with a “We care about your privacy” consent screen, with four categories. The first category, “Strictly necessary”, told me it was necessary for them to share info with eleven entities, such as Vimeo and LinkedIn, because it was “essential to our site operation”. The remaining categories added up to 59 different entities that American Airlines would like to share my browsing data with while respecting my privacy. Once I dismissed the consent screen, I was then able to get the information. Then I tried the question on ChatGPT. It said “Searching the web”, paused for a second, and then it told me. Then I tried it on Claude. It paused for a second, said “Searching the web”, and then it told me. Then I tried it on Qwen. It paused for a second, then told me. Then I tried it on DeepSeek. It paused for a second, said “Searching the web”, and then it told me. All of the LLMs gave me the information more quickly, got the answer right, and linked to the official source. Yes, Google’s AI answer did too… but that’s just Google’s LLM. Websites have been choosing shitty UX for decades at this point. The web is so polluted with crap and obstacles it’s ridiculous. Nobody seems to care any more. Now LLMs have come along that will just give you the info straight away without any fuss, so of course people are going to prefer them.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    > Websites have been choosing shitty UX for decades at this point. The web is so polluted with crap and obstacles it’s ridiculous. Nobody seems to care any more. Now LLMs have come along that will just give you the info straight away without any fuss, so of course people are going to prefer them. Do you honestly believe LLMs aren't gonna get sponsored answers/ads and "helpful" UI elements that boost their profits?
    - JimDabell 1y ago
      I’m talking about today’s experience, not speculating about what might happen at some arbitrary point in the future. The web has this shitty UX. LLMs do not have this shitty UX. I’m going to judge on what I can see and use.
      - ceejayoz 1y ago
        > I’m talking about today’s experience… In that case, get uBlock. The answer is in the first result, on the first screen, and the answer is even quoted in the short description from the site. (As a bonus, it also blocks the cookie consent popups on the AA site, if you like.) The only thing getting in the way of the real, vetted, straight-from-the-source answer currently is the AI overview. https://imgur.com/a/pRUGgRx https://imgur.com/a/pRUGgRx
        JimDabell 1y ago
        Most people don’t use an ad blocker. Even so, saying that the UX of the web is almost as good as the UX of an LLM after you take steps to work around the UX problems with the web isn’t really an argument.
        ceejayoz 1y ago
        > Most people don’t use an ad blocker. I mean, they should. Anyone on this site most certainly should. The LLM UX is going to rapidly converge with the search UX as soon as these companies run out of investor funds to burn. It's already starting; https://www.axios.com/2024/12/03/openai-ads-chatgpt https://www.axios.com/2024/12/03/openai-ads-chatgpt. What then?
ceejayoz 1y ago
That search query brings up https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/baggage/carry-on-baggage.jsp https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/baggage/carry-on-baggage... for the first result, which says "The total size of your carry-on, including the handles and wheels, cannot exceed 22 x 14 x 9 inches (56 x 36 x 23 cm) and must fit in the sizer at the airport." What benefit did the LLM add here, if you still had to vet the sources?
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  > What benefit did the LLM add here Its answer was not buried in ads for suitcases, hotels, car rentals, and restaurants.
  - skywhopper 1y ago
    Really sad that we have made the web so obnoxious that people want to use complex AI tech to re-simplify it.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    https://imgur.com/a/pRUGgRx https://imgur.com/a/pRUGgRx Looks fine to me.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
- seventhtiger 1y ago
  I didn't have to accept cookies or dismiss any offers.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    You absolutely have to accept cookies to use the major LLM providers. Offers are coming: https://www.axios.com/2024/12/03/openai-ads-chatgpt https://www.axios.com/2024/12/03/openai-ads-chatgpt
WhyIsItAlwaysHN 1y ago
What I was saying is that you wouldn't use a raw LLM (so 506 tokens to get an answer). You would use it with web search so you can get the links. The LLM has to read the websites to answer you so that significantly increases the token count, since it has to include them in its input.

adrian_b 1y ago

I do not see which is the added benefit provided by the LLM in such cases, instead of doing yourself that web search, and for free.

JimDabell 1y ago
I just tried that search on Google. The first thing I saw was the AI summary. Underneath that was a third-party site. Underneath that was “People also ask” with five different questions. And then underneath that was the link to the American Airlines site. I followed the line to the official site. I was presented with a “We care about your privacy” consent screen, with four categories. The first category, “Strictly necessary”, told me it was necessary for them to share info with eleven entities, such as Vimeo and LinkedIn, because it was “essential to our site operation”. The remaining categories added up to 59 different entities that American Airlines would like to share my browsing data with while respecting my privacy. Once I dismissed the consent screen, I was then able to get the information. Then I tried the question on ChatGPT. It said “Searching the web”, paused for a second, and then it told me. Then I tried it on Claude. It paused for a second, said “Searching the web”, and then it told me. Then I tried it on Qwen. It paused for a second, then told me. Then I tried it on DeepSeek. It paused for a second, said “Searching the web”, and then it told me. All of the LLMs gave me the information more quickly, got the answer right, and linked to the official source. Yes, Google’s AI answer did too… but that’s just Google’s LLM. Websites have been choosing shitty UX for decades at this point. The web is so polluted with crap and obstacles it’s ridiculous. Nobody seems to care any more. Now LLMs have come along that will just give you the info straight away without any fuss, so of course people are going to prefer them.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  > Websites have been choosing shitty UX for decades at this point. The web is so polluted with crap and obstacles it’s ridiculous. Nobody seems to care any more. Now LLMs have come along that will just give you the info straight away without any fuss, so of course people are going to prefer them. Do you honestly believe LLMs aren't gonna get sponsored answers/ads and "helpful" UI elements that boost their profits?
  - JimDabell 1y ago
    I’m talking about today’s experience, not speculating about what might happen at some arbitrary point in the future. The web has this shitty UX. LLMs do not have this shitty UX. I’m going to judge on what I can see and use.
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      > I’m talking about today’s experience… In that case, get uBlock. The answer is in the first result, on the first screen, and the answer is even quoted in the short description from the site. (As a bonus, it also blocks the cookie consent popups on the AA site, if you like.) The only thing getting in the way of the real, vetted, straight-from-the-source answer currently is the AI overview. https://imgur.com/a/pRUGgRx https://imgur.com/a/pRUGgRx
      - JimDabell 1y ago
        Most people don’t use an ad blocker. Even so, saying that the UX of the web is almost as good as the UX of an LLM after you take steps to work around the UX problems with the web isn’t really an argument.
        ceejayoz 1y ago
        > Most people don’t use an ad blocker. I mean, they should. Anyone on this site most certainly should. The LLM UX is going to rapidly converge with the search UX as soon as these companies run out of investor funds to burn. It's already starting; https://www.axios.com/2024/12/03/openai-ads-chatgpt https://www.axios.com/2024/12/03/openai-ads-chatgpt. What then?

ceejayoz 1y ago

That search query brings up https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/baggage/carry-on-baggage.jsp https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/baggage/carry-on-baggage... for the first result, which says "The total size of your carry-on, including the handles and wheels, cannot exceed 22 x 14 x 9 inches (56 x 36 x 23 cm) and must fit in the sizer at the airport." What benefit did the LLM add here, if you still had to vet the sources?

SoftTalker 1y ago
> What benefit did the LLM add here Its answer was not buried in ads for suitcases, hotels, car rentals, and restaurants.
- skywhopper 1y ago
  Really sad that we have made the web so obnoxious that people want to use complex AI tech to re-simplify it.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  https://imgur.com/a/pRUGgRx https://imgur.com/a/pRUGgRx Looks fine to me.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
seventhtiger 1y ago
I didn't have to accept cookies or dismiss any offers.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  You absolutely have to accept cookies to use the major LLM providers. Offers are coming: https://www.axios.com/2024/12/03/openai-ads-chatgpt https://www.axios.com/2024/12/03/openai-ads-chatgpt

WhyIsItAlwaysHN 1y ago

What I was saying is that you wouldn't use a raw LLM (so 506 tokens to get an answer). You would use it with web search so you can get the links. The LLM has to read the websites to answer you so that significantly increases the token count, since it has to include them in its input.