4 ms·

He isn't, of course. According to Jewish thought, God is perfect and therefore any loopholes in the rules were put there on purpose. If you have studied the hol

by WJW 1y ago

He isn't, of course. According to Jewish thought, God is perfect and therefore any loopholes in the rules were put there on purpose. If you have studied the holy texts deeply enough to find the loophole, that makes you more holy, not less. It's like an easter egg for true believers. The true sinners are those who think that they know what God wants better than what He actually passed down as commandments. God knows what He wants and wrote it down exactly like that.

buran77 1y ago
> any loopholes in the rules were put there on purpose > The true sinners are those who think that they know what God wants better than what He actually passed down as commandments. God knows what He wants and wrote it down exactly like that. So it's just man who decides "this is a loophole and God wants me to use it". Man decides what God really wants. Man who not only looks for ways around God's word but he also claims God wanted him to do this. > If you have studied the holy texts deeply enough to find the loophole, that makes you more holy, not less. It's like an easter egg for true believers. Did God ever say man should look for loopholes, exceptions, or reinterpretation of His word? Did God say what you just said or was it you who thinks that you know what God wants better than what He actually passed down as commandments?
- pdabbadabba 1y ago
  I’m not a believer myself, but the response here seems obvious: by putting his law in writing, god invites (even demands) interpretation. What you are calling a “loophole” would just be a perhaps nonobvious but correct interpretation as applied to a particular set of facts.
  - buran77 1y ago
    > but the response here seems obvious: by putting his law in writing, god invites (even demands) interpretation. You, just a man, purport to know what God invites and even demands us to do.
    - bawolff 1y ago
      Seems logical to me, either you believe you can understand the divine will by interpreting holy books or you don't. If you don't believe the divine will is knowable, then why would you follow any religion?
      - buran77 1y ago
        > If you don't believe the divine will is knowable, then why would you follow any religion? This doesn't follow. If you believe you can just decide how to reinterpret the word of God then you put yourself at the same level as Him and are qualified to follow your own word, rather than a religion. You follow a religion because you want to be given the word of God to follow. Not the word of a man who pretends he is at the same level as God so his reinterpretation weights the same. Let me bring it down to earth. If you go for a lecture from Einstein you want to get Einstein's word, not an assistant to interpret "I think he meant we're all relatives man". If anything you have two choices. 1) You take God's word at face value, no interpretation, no exceptions. 2) You choose to freely interpret everything because God wanted you to. E.g. In war time emergency you are allowed to carry guns and a radio but the volume must be kept low. This is a very arbitrary interpretation drawing from present needs rather than anything in the word of God. Well and good, anything can be categorized as an exception. If everything can be an exception that you don't need a rule book. The only reason for that book to still exist is so some men can make rules for other.
        adrianN 1y ago
        I’m not sure whether it’s possible to read a text without any interpretation. I don’t think you can derive any meaning without interpretation.
        bawolff 1y ago
        Especially since its a text written thousands of years ago, where the meanings of some of the words are pretty unclear, and you are probably not reading the original but a translation. There are words in the bible where people just aren't sure what they are referring to. E.g. what is gopher wood? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_wood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_wood
  - noworriesnate 1y ago
    The problem with looking to a dusty old book full of loopholes for your moral compass becomes evident when you realize that pedophilia is never condemned in the Bible, and as a result the Babylonian Talmud endorses it.
- nkrisc 1y ago
  All religions are absurd, don’t think too hard about them - just follow.
- gizmo686 1y ago
  > Rabbi Eliezer then said to them: If the halakha is in accordance with my opinion, Heaven will prove it. A Divine Voice emerged from Heaven and said: Why are you differing with Rabbi Eliezer, as the halakha is in accordance with his opinion in every place that he expresses an opinion? Rabbi Yehoshua stood on his feet and said: It is written: “It is not in heaven” (Deuteronomy 30:12). The Gemara asks: What is the relevance of the phrase “It is not in heaven” in this context? Rabbi Yirmeya says: Since the Torah was already given at Mount Sinai, we do not regard a Divine Voice, as You already wrote at Mount Sinai, in the Torah: “After a majority to incline” (Exodus 23:2). Since the majority of Rabbis disagreed with Rabbi Eliezer’s opinion, the halakha is not ruled in accordance with his opinion. The Gemara relates: Years after, Rabbi Natan encountered Elijah the prophet and said to him: What did the Holy One, Blessed be He, do at that time, when Rabbi Yehoshua issued his declaration? Elijah said to him: The Holy One, Blessed be He, smiled and said: My children have triumphed over Me; My children have triumphed over Me. - Bava Metziah 59b https://link.chabad.org/torah-texts/5455793/The-Talmud/Bava-Metzia/Chapter-4/59b https://link.chabad.org/torah-texts/5455793/The-Talmud/Bava-...
bambax 1y ago
> God knows what He wants and wrote it down exactly like that. When the word of God has obvious contradictions and inconsistencies what does it mean? Are there little traps that He set up for us mortals? Is God mischievous?
- lo_zamoyski 1y ago
  > the word of God has obvious contradictions and inconsistencies Such as?
  - david-gpu 1y ago
    "Problem of evil". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil
    - asenchi 1y ago
      This is answered throughout scriptures. The problem of sin is human's rejection of the goodness of God. We love ourselves more than we love him and in that rejection regularly advantage ourselves at the disadvantage of those around us. In order to solve the problem, we would have to be wiped out. But in the wisdom and goodness of God he planned a way from the beginning to solve our transgressions. God created all things out of love, and made humans as image bearers to tend to his creation. Out of love he did these things, fully knowing that humans were capable of turning away from God. Humans put themselves before God in the garden and by doing so brought evil into the world. The rest of scripture is God's good plan to turn the world right again, to expel evil from his good creation while also saving those whom bear his image that he loves. He does this by giving them the law to expose the sin of humankind, and sending the 2nd person of the trinity of God (Jesus) to fulfill the law. Jesus offered himself as a sacrifice to pay the guilt of the sins of humans. In doing so bringing true justice and mercy for the evil brought into the world. In his resurrection he conquered death (the ultimate punishment for evil, death is something that was never intended in God's good creation) and setting in motion the process of restoring the world, bringing about new creation in which Jesus is the first fruits. The world will be set right and all sin, evil, and tears wiped away. (fixed some grammatical errors)

by WJW 1y ago

buran77 1y ago

> any loopholes in the rules were put there on purpose > The true sinners are those who think that they know what God wants better than what He actually passed down as commandments. God knows what He wants and wrote it down exactly like that. So it's just man who decides "this is a loophole and God wants me to use it". Man decides what God really wants. Man who not only looks for ways around God's word but he also claims God wanted him to do this. > If you have studied the holy texts deeply enough to find the loophole, that makes you more holy, not less. It's like an easter egg for true believers. Did God ever say man should look for loopholes, exceptions, or reinterpretation of His word? Did God say what you just said or was it you who thinks that you know what God wants better than what He actually passed down as commandments?

pdabbadabba 1y ago
I’m not a believer myself, but the response here seems obvious: by putting his law in writing, god invites (even demands) interpretation. What you are calling a “loophole” would just be a perhaps nonobvious but correct interpretation as applied to a particular set of facts.
- buran77 1y ago
  > but the response here seems obvious: by putting his law in writing, god invites (even demands) interpretation. You, just a man, purport to know what God invites and even demands us to do.
  - bawolff 1y ago
    Seems logical to me, either you believe you can understand the divine will by interpreting holy books or you don't. If you don't believe the divine will is knowable, then why would you follow any religion?
    - buran77 1y ago
      > If you don't believe the divine will is knowable, then why would you follow any religion? This doesn't follow. If you believe you can just decide how to reinterpret the word of God then you put yourself at the same level as Him and are qualified to follow your own word, rather than a religion. You follow a religion because you want to be given the word of God to follow. Not the word of a man who pretends he is at the same level as God so his reinterpretation weights the same. Let me bring it down to earth. If you go for a lecture from Einstein you want to get Einstein's word, not an assistant to interpret "I think he meant we're all relatives man". If anything you have two choices. 1) You take God's word at face value, no interpretation, no exceptions. 2) You choose to freely interpret everything because God wanted you to. E.g. In war time emergency you are allowed to carry guns and a radio but the volume must be kept low. This is a very arbitrary interpretation drawing from present needs rather than anything in the word of God. Well and good, anything can be categorized as an exception. If everything can be an exception that you don't need a rule book. The only reason for that book to still exist is so some men can make rules for other.
      - adrianN 1y ago
        I’m not sure whether it’s possible to read a text without any interpretation. I don’t think you can derive any meaning without interpretation.
        bawolff 1y ago
        Especially since its a text written thousands of years ago, where the meanings of some of the words are pretty unclear, and you are probably not reading the original but a translation. There are words in the bible where people just aren't sure what they are referring to. E.g. what is gopher wood? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_wood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopher_wood
- noworriesnate 1y ago
  The problem with looking to a dusty old book full of loopholes for your moral compass becomes evident when you realize that pedophilia is never condemned in the Bible, and as a result the Babylonian Talmud endorses it.
nkrisc 1y ago
All religions are absurd, don’t think too hard about them - just follow.
gizmo686 1y ago
> Rabbi Eliezer then said to them: If the halakha is in accordance with my opinion, Heaven will prove it. A Divine Voice emerged from Heaven and said: Why are you differing with Rabbi Eliezer, as the halakha is in accordance with his opinion in every place that he expresses an opinion? Rabbi Yehoshua stood on his feet and said: It is written: “It is not in heaven” (Deuteronomy 30:12). The Gemara asks: What is the relevance of the phrase “It is not in heaven” in this context? Rabbi Yirmeya says: Since the Torah was already given at Mount Sinai, we do not regard a Divine Voice, as You already wrote at Mount Sinai, in the Torah: “After a majority to incline” (Exodus 23:2). Since the majority of Rabbis disagreed with Rabbi Eliezer’s opinion, the halakha is not ruled in accordance with his opinion. The Gemara relates: Years after, Rabbi Natan encountered Elijah the prophet and said to him: What did the Holy One, Blessed be He, do at that time, when Rabbi Yehoshua issued his declaration? Elijah said to him: The Holy One, Blessed be He, smiled and said: My children have triumphed over Me; My children have triumphed over Me. - Bava Metziah 59b https://link.chabad.org/torah-texts/5455793/The-Talmud/Bava-Metzia/Chapter-4/59b https://link.chabad.org/torah-texts/5455793/The-Talmud/Bava-...

bambax 1y ago

> God knows what He wants and wrote it down exactly like that. When the word of God has obvious contradictions and inconsistencies what does it mean? Are there little traps that He set up for us mortals? Is God mischievous?

lo_zamoyski 1y ago
> the word of God has obvious contradictions and inconsistencies Such as?
- david-gpu 1y ago
  "Problem of evil". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil
  - asenchi 1y ago
    This is answered throughout scriptures. The problem of sin is human's rejection of the goodness of God. We love ourselves more than we love him and in that rejection regularly advantage ourselves at the disadvantage of those around us. In order to solve the problem, we would have to be wiped out. But in the wisdom and goodness of God he planned a way from the beginning to solve our transgressions. God created all things out of love, and made humans as image bearers to tend to his creation. Out of love he did these things, fully knowing that humans were capable of turning away from God. Humans put themselves before God in the garden and by doing so brought evil into the world. The rest of scripture is God's good plan to turn the world right again, to expel evil from his good creation while also saving those whom bear his image that he loves. He does this by giving them the law to expose the sin of humankind, and sending the 2nd person of the trinity of God (Jesus) to fulfill the law. Jesus offered himself as a sacrifice to pay the guilt of the sins of humans. In doing so bringing true justice and mercy for the evil brought into the world. In his resurrection he conquered death (the ultimate punishment for evil, death is something that was never intended in God's good creation) and setting in motion the process of restoring the world, bringing about new creation in which Jesus is the first fruits. The world will be set right and all sin, evil, and tears wiped away. (fixed some grammatical errors)