4 ms·

This is Nazi talk. That was the actual Nazi plan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_Plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_Plan The differentiation bet

This is Nazi talk. That was the actual Nazi plan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_Plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_Plan The differentiation between Ukraine and Russia is interesting. Ukrainian nationalists had also joined the Nazis.

lostlogin 1y ago
> Ukrainian nationalists had also joined the Nazis. This occurred in all occupied territories didn’t it? France, Holland, Belgium etc. It also occurred in some that weren’t occupied. Spain for example, and don’t look too hard at the British Royal Family (for this reason and various others).
- defrost 1y ago
  Also in North America, eg: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/german-american-bund https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/german-ame... As with Ukraine a few Nazi's didn't represent the country nor even come close to a majority.
oddmiral 1y ago
Few Ukrainians joined Nazi, few Jews joined Nazi, whole 3 million Russian Army joined Nazi. :-/
- hackandthink 1y ago
  This is a hornet nest. I once read this from Alain Badiou: "This separatism at certain moments reached extremes that no one could forget, particularly not the Russian people, knowing that the vast mass of the Nazi-armed and organised armies coming from Russian territory were Ukrainian. The Vlasov army was a Ukrainian army. Today we can even read the history of Ukrainians turning entire villages to blood and fire, including French ones. A good part of the repression of the maquis in central France was carried out by Ukrainians. " Wikimedia presents Vaslov's army as Russian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army But Wikipedia about Vlasov (SS Division here): "He (Himmler) oversaw the creation of the SS-Volunteer Division "Galicia" in October 1943 from Ukrainian volunteers, but that same month he said that Vlasov made him "genuinely anxious." https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/news/1569-a-present-defaults-unless-the-crowd-declares-itself-alain-badiou-on-ukraine-egypt-and-finitude https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/news/1569-a-present-default... https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/news/1569-a-present-defaults-unless-the-crowd-declares-itself-alain-badiou-on-ukraine-egypt-and-finitude https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/news/1569-a-present-default... --- Badiou is a strange guy but I trust him. In general, I have the impression that the historiography of the Nazi collobaration in Central Europe has been politically influenced in recent years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Vlasov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Vlasov

lostlogin 1y ago

> Ukrainian nationalists had also joined the Nazis. This occurred in all occupied territories didn’t it? France, Holland, Belgium etc. It also occurred in some that weren’t occupied. Spain for example, and don’t look too hard at the British Royal Family (for this reason and various others).

defrost 1y ago
Also in North America, eg: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/german-american-bund https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/german-ame... As with Ukraine a few Nazi's didn't represent the country nor even come close to a majority.

oddmiral 1y ago

Few Ukrainians joined Nazi, few Jews joined Nazi, whole 3 million Russian Army joined Nazi. :-/

hackandthink 1y ago
This is a hornet nest. I once read this from Alain Badiou: "This separatism at certain moments reached extremes that no one could forget, particularly not the Russian people, knowing that the vast mass of the Nazi-armed and organised armies coming from Russian territory were Ukrainian. The Vlasov army was a Ukrainian army. Today we can even read the history of Ukrainians turning entire villages to blood and fire, including French ones. A good part of the repression of the maquis in central France was carried out by Ukrainians. " Wikimedia presents Vaslov's army as Russian: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army But Wikipedia about Vlasov (SS Division here): "He (Himmler) oversaw the creation of the SS-Volunteer Division "Galicia" in October 1943 from Ukrainian volunteers, but that same month he said that Vlasov made him "genuinely anxious." https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/news/1569-a-present-defaults-unless-the-crowd-declares-itself-alain-badiou-on-ukraine-egypt-and-finitude https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/news/1569-a-present-default... https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/news/1569-a-present-defaults-unless-the-crowd-declares-itself-alain-badiou-on-ukraine-egypt-and-finitude https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/news/1569-a-present-default... --- Badiou is a strange guy but I trust him. In general, I have the impression that the historiography of the Nazi collobaration in Central Europe has been politically influenced in recent years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Vlasov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Vlasov