3 ms·

Can you explain to me about the near outlaw of EVs?

by tomcam 1y ago

drivingmenuts 1y ago
In short, the Republican Party is in bed with oil producers and many elected politicians are heavily invested in oil or oil-adjacent companies. The same party is anti-Science in a way that is nearly impossible to comprehend and, as such, scoffs at global warming and you can work the rest out from there. The Republicans have the majority in the House, the Senate and the Oval Office. The Supreme Court is conservative. Right now, we're probably the modern equivalent of Germany in 193x. I think that about covers it. All of the above means an EV-hostile environment here. Oh, and our biggest EV maker is a Neo-Nazi supporter.
pkulak 1y ago
The new budget that passed the house has registration fees on EVs that will only match gas cars if you drive well over 25,000 miles a year. Maybe "outlaw" was hyperbolic, but you tax what you want less of. I would imagine that these taxes will only increase. Especially compared to the _incentives_ offered in every other country. We don't "outlaw" cigarettes, for example, but I would call the current taxes on them a "near" outlaw.
- mousethatroared 1y ago
  You tax to finance government services. EV use roads but don't pay fuel taxes. We can debate how much EVs should be taxed, but they're using the bloody roads, aren't they?
  - bdangubic 1y ago
    in VA we pay EV Tax (along with 87 other car taxes to keep driving on shitty roads…) - whatever your problem is when it comes to roads, more taxes ain’t gonna solve them
    - mousethatroared 1y ago
      If you're gathering the resources and you still have bad roads, then that's a problem of Virginians inability to govern well. Which, as an American largely being governed by Virginians, I cant say Im surprised.
  - pkulak 1y ago
    My point is that there's no reason to tax them more than gas cars. Gas cars create FAR more negative externalities. I'm not saying they shouldn't be taxed at all; sorry if you got that impression.
    - genocidicbunny 1y ago
      Are they being taxed more? Or is it that with gas cars, most of the tax is paid outside of registration, when they're refueled, whereas EVs only pay the taxes at registration time, and thus end up paying their share up front instead of over time?
      - pkulak 1y ago
        The new budget that passed the house has registration fees on EVs that will only match gas cars if you drive well over 25,000 miles a year. Though it’s actually about 35,000 miles. I did the math wrong.
    - bob1029 1y ago
      EVs tend to weigh more and cause a higher degree of microplastic emission and road wear. HN is usually happy to remind everyone that the damage a vehicle causes to a road scales with the fourth power of its weight. A Tesla model 3 is about triple the wear on the road surface compared to a Toyota Camry.
      - pkulak 1y ago
        The average gas car is an F150, and the average EV is a Model Y. EVs don’t tend to weigh more. And the tire microplastic thing is misinformation with zero evidence. The only evidence we have is the drastically reduced brake wear (and dust) on EVs.
        mousethatroared 1y ago
        Obviously the higher mass and torque of the EV causes more microplastics. This is basic materials science and the reason why EVs need tougher tires. I dont get why we're comparing F150s to the Model Y. When Im looking to buy a truck, Im not considering the Model Y (although In peeved the Ranger isnt hybrid). I have never considered a Tesla (Im not in the market for another sedan) but if I were my comparison would be something like the Accord. But sure let's compare the F150 to the model Y: back in 2021 - a base F150 weighed about 4000lb, less than a base Model Y and an F150 supercab V6 F150 was <4500 lb. [1] A long range model Y weighs about a little bit less, but the difference is less than 100 lb. Sure, I can configure the F150 to weigh 5500, but few need to and few do. So the point stands: The Model Y weighs as much as a half ton truck. Meanwhile a Ford Maverick, a truck Ford can't make enough to meet demand, weighs 3700 lb [1] https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/product/2021/f150/pdfs/2021-F-150-Technical-Specs.pdf https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America...
drivingmenuts 1y ago
I should also mention that a large percentage of the population is in love with ICE-mobiles. They transport the ever-shrinking middle class and lower classes that can't afford to completely replace their vehicles with EVs and, likely, never will be. Even the world's ugliest electric truck is beyond the reach of a large portion of the middle class. Removing gas stations and adding charging stations is not going to do anything except cause more panic. NGL, I drive a gas-powered Jetta (I wish it was diesel, but oh well) and if I can't get gas, I can't drive. While I'm lucky enough to live where there's some sort of public transit, that's not a thing in a lot of cities. Without the political will or the budget to start adding public transportation RIGHT THE HELL NOW, if ICE goes away, our economy is screwed.

Can you explain to me about the near outlaw of EVs?

by tomcam 1y ago

Can you explain to me about the near outlaw of EVs?

In short, the Republican Party is in bed with oil producers and many elected politicians are heavily invested in oil or oil-adjacent companies. The same party is anti-Science in a way that is nearly impossible to comprehend and, as such, scoffs at global warming and you can work the rest out from there. The Republicans have the majority in the House, the Senate and the Oval Office. The Supreme Court is conservative. Right now, we're probably the modern equivalent of Germany in 193x. I think that about covers it. All of the above means an EV-hostile environment here. Oh, and our biggest EV maker is a Neo-Nazi supporter.

pkulak 1y ago

The new budget that passed the house has registration fees on EVs that will only match gas cars if you drive well over 25,000 miles a year. Maybe "outlaw" was hyperbolic, but you tax what you want less of. I would imagine that these taxes will only increase. Especially compared to the _incentives_ offered in every other country. We don't "outlaw" cigarettes, for example, but I would call the current taxes on them a "near" outlaw.

mousethatroared 1y ago
You tax to finance government services. EV use roads but don't pay fuel taxes. We can debate how much EVs should be taxed, but they're using the bloody roads, aren't they?
- bdangubic 1y ago
  in VA we pay EV Tax (along with 87 other car taxes to keep driving on shitty roads…) - whatever your problem is when it comes to roads, more taxes ain’t gonna solve them
  - mousethatroared 1y ago
    If you're gathering the resources and you still have bad roads, then that's a problem of Virginians inability to govern well. Which, as an American largely being governed by Virginians, I cant say Im surprised.
- pkulak 1y ago
  My point is that there's no reason to tax them more than gas cars. Gas cars create FAR more negative externalities. I'm not saying they shouldn't be taxed at all; sorry if you got that impression.
  - genocidicbunny 1y ago
    Are they being taxed more? Or is it that with gas cars, most of the tax is paid outside of registration, when they're refueled, whereas EVs only pay the taxes at registration time, and thus end up paying their share up front instead of over time?
    - pkulak 1y ago
      The new budget that passed the house has registration fees on EVs that will only match gas cars if you drive well over 25,000 miles a year. Though it’s actually about 35,000 miles. I did the math wrong.
  - bob1029 1y ago
    EVs tend to weigh more and cause a higher degree of microplastic emission and road wear. HN is usually happy to remind everyone that the damage a vehicle causes to a road scales with the fourth power of its weight. A Tesla model 3 is about triple the wear on the road surface compared to a Toyota Camry.
    - pkulak 1y ago
      The average gas car is an F150, and the average EV is a Model Y. EVs don’t tend to weigh more. And the tire microplastic thing is misinformation with zero evidence. The only evidence we have is the drastically reduced brake wear (and dust) on EVs.
      - mousethatroared 1y ago
        Obviously the higher mass and torque of the EV causes more microplastics. This is basic materials science and the reason why EVs need tougher tires. I dont get why we're comparing F150s to the Model Y. When Im looking to buy a truck, Im not considering the Model Y (although In peeved the Ranger isnt hybrid). I have never considered a Tesla (Im not in the market for another sedan) but if I were my comparison would be something like the Accord. But sure let's compare the F150 to the model Y: back in 2021 - a base F150 weighed about 4000lb, less than a base Model Y and an F150 supercab V6 F150 was <4500 lb. [1] A long range model Y weighs about a little bit less, but the difference is less than 100 lb. Sure, I can configure the F150 to weigh 5500, but few need to and few do. So the point stands: The Model Y weighs as much as a half ton truck. Meanwhile a Ford Maverick, a truck Ford can't make enough to meet demand, weighs 3700 lb [1] https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/product/2021/f150/pdfs/2021-F-150-Technical-Specs.pdf https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America...

drivingmenuts 1y ago

I should also mention that a large percentage of the population is in love with ICE-mobiles. They transport the ever-shrinking middle class and lower classes that can't afford to completely replace their vehicles with EVs and, likely, never will be. Even the world's ugliest electric truck is beyond the reach of a large portion of the middle class. Removing gas stations and adding charging stations is not going to do anything except cause more panic. NGL, I drive a gas-powered Jetta (I wish it was diesel, but oh well) and if I can't get gas, I can't drive. While I'm lucky enough to live where there's some sort of public transit, that's not a thing in a lot of cities. Without the political will or the budget to start adding public transportation RIGHT THE HELL NOW, if ICE goes away, our economy is screwed.