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I've concluded that options are a scam after owning them in many companies. It's never amounted to anything

hamburglar 1y ago
What you should understand is that they are a longshot. Like, worse than 10 to 1. I’ve gotten lucky and made a truckload of money on them, and know many people who have done the same. I’ve also had them be an utter waste of money. It’s very much a gamble and it’s unlikely to pay off. This doesn’t make it a scam.
- fluorinerocket 1y ago
  A lottery ticket is legal but expected value is negative. Same with casino games. Sure it's legal and sometimes people win but in my book it's a scam, even if not technically one. What I particularly resent is the pretence from companies that a lower salary can be compensated by options. Such BS
  - bravesoul2 1y ago
    No need to resent. Just don't take the job. There are jobs that pay the low salary and no magic beans either!
lotsofpulp 1y ago
Options at non publicly traded companies are worth zero. Or should be valued the same as a lottery ticket.
- duped 1y ago
  Tell that to the IRS
  - wslh 1y ago
    They play their own game like a boss.
  - koolba 1y ago
    What’s there to tell? Option grants that are not exercised have no tax consequence.
    - dilyevsky 1y ago
      There's a 10y max ttl on ISOs to exercise or lose it. Also if you leave the company it's 90d. You typically can convert ISOs to NSOs but you lose some of the tax advantages of ISO (not a tax/investment advice, etc etc)
duped 1y ago
We still get paid obscene salaries fucking around with the bonus of a shot to make even more obscene money. For all the complaining about options there's little acknowledgement of how little startup work contributes to society relative to the money we rake in from people willing to fund it.
- bravesoul2 1y ago
  Obscene salary is almost an oxymoron. Maybe CEOs get that. Most people who get obscene money get it from some kind of investment.
- ipaddr 1y ago
  Startup positions vs regular positions often pay much lower. Obscene salaries and startups (which are mostly bootstrapped) don't go hand in hand. Startup founder who raises gets to play with obscene money. If you come across obscene money startup jobs share them. Tons of unemployed developers lurking who would take % of obscene.
  - duped 1y ago
    Startup positions pay significantly better than everything but FAANG and are easier to get than FAANG.
    - ipaddr 1y ago
      Where would be a good place to look for these type of startups?
      - duped 1y ago
        "who's hiring" threads here, various discord servers/twitter/bluesky follows, people you know, etc. Same as any other job. The filter is for places that are doing real development work (not cashing in on trends) and have seed money/series A/B/C/etc.
bravesoul2 1y ago
Sometimes they are not. I think for post startup companies it is somewhat possible to put a value on ESOP then risk adjust for you losing the job, leaving etc. I have been paid out but think bonus cash for a holiday money not life changing. I kept it in post IPO and got more but then anyone could have done that post IPO.

What you should understand is that they are a longshot. Like, worse than 10 to 1. I’ve gotten lucky and made a truckload of money on them, and know many people who have done the same. I’ve also had them be an utter waste of money. It’s very much a gamble and it’s unlikely to pay off. This doesn’t make it a scam.

fluorinerocket 1y ago
A lottery ticket is legal but expected value is negative. Same with casino games. Sure it's legal and sometimes people win but in my book it's a scam, even if not technically one. What I particularly resent is the pretence from companies that a lower salary can be compensated by options. Such BS
- bravesoul2 1y ago
  No need to resent. Just don't take the job. There are jobs that pay the low salary and no magic beans either!

lotsofpulp 1y ago

Options at non publicly traded companies are worth zero. Or should be valued the same as a lottery ticket.

duped 1y ago
Tell that to the IRS
- wslh 1y ago
  They play their own game like a boss.
- koolba 1y ago
  What’s there to tell? Option grants that are not exercised have no tax consequence.
  - dilyevsky 1y ago
    There's a 10y max ttl on ISOs to exercise or lose it. Also if you leave the company it's 90d. You typically can convert ISOs to NSOs but you lose some of the tax advantages of ISO (not a tax/investment advice, etc etc)

duped 1y ago

We still get paid obscene salaries fucking around with the bonus of a shot to make even more obscene money. For all the complaining about options there's little acknowledgement of how little startup work contributes to society relative to the money we rake in from people willing to fund it.

bravesoul2 1y ago
Obscene salary is almost an oxymoron. Maybe CEOs get that. Most people who get obscene money get it from some kind of investment.
ipaddr 1y ago
Startup positions vs regular positions often pay much lower. Obscene salaries and startups (which are mostly bootstrapped) don't go hand in hand. Startup founder who raises gets to play with obscene money. If you come across obscene money startup jobs share them. Tons of unemployed developers lurking who would take % of obscene.
- duped 1y ago
  Startup positions pay significantly better than everything but FAANG and are easier to get than FAANG.
  - ipaddr 1y ago
    Where would be a good place to look for these type of startups?
    - duped 1y ago
      "who's hiring" threads here, various discord servers/twitter/bluesky follows, people you know, etc. Same as any other job. The filter is for places that are doing real development work (not cashing in on trends) and have seed money/series A/B/C/etc.

bravesoul2 1y ago

Sometimes they are not. I think for post startup companies it is somewhat possible to put a value on ESOP then risk adjust for you losing the job, leaving etc. I have been paid out but think bonus cash for a holiday money not life changing. I kept it in post IPO and got more but then anyone could have done that post IPO.