5 ms·

> It’s not shameful, it’s how evidence based medicine works. Yeah, but I'll bet nothing happened as an outcome of this. No study, no communication to anyone el

> It’s not shameful, it’s how evidence based medicine works. Yeah, but I'll bet nothing happened as an outcome of this. No study, no communication to anyone else. That information probably just withered on the vine. I did a molecular bio undergrad and had classes with a bunch of pre-med students. They had zero interest in the science, just getting A's. They did care about appearance and money, driving cool cars, and dating hot partners. I know my experience is purely anecdotal and not indicative of all doctors, but I came away from my undergrad experience highly unimpressed with our medical feedstock. The only students in upper level electives that cared were the research-track students. I talk to my doctors regularly about medicinal chemistry and biochem -- they don't know anything. It's embrassing how little they retain or care.

calf 1y ago
"Evidence-based" is a really problematic term when it is used to protect bureaucracies and medical managerialism, rather than actually interact with scientific processes in an ethical way. Their anecdote is actually a good example of why evidence-based logic is not the end-all.
- uselesswords 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - echelon 1y ago
    Barry James Marshall
    - uselesswords 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - uselesswords 1y ago
        Since no one wants to explain and you I just got downvoted, Barry James Marshall is ironically an example of EBM and is HIMSELF an active proponent of EBM. He had a biological hypothesis that the scientific community disagreed with and tested it on himself for a case study to get data. That case study was successful and then became a clinical trial. That trial was replicated and shown to work. He then won a Nobel prize for that work and the risk he took. This is an evidence-based process. EBM doesn’t mean you disregard a N=1, it means you expand N=1 into N=10, then N=100,… before you apply something to the general population. This is loosely how phase-1,2,3,4 trials work in the US. Dismissing EBM because of Marshall is like dismissing all of math because someone disproved a popular conjecture like the local-to-global conjecture. Sure the community sentiment had it wrong, but the systematic logical approach of Math got it right. In Marshall’s case the community sentiment had it wrong, but the EBM approach eventually got it right. Half this thread doesn’t even know what they are arguing against.
    - manjalyc 1y ago
      Prof. Barry Marshall is an example of why Evidence-Based Medicine works against community sentiment.
  - calf 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - uselesswords 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - calf 1y ago
        [flagged]
        dang 1y ago
        You crossed repeatedly into personal attack in this thread. That's not ok and not allowed here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
      - dang 1y ago
        It's great that you're in medical school and very aware, but that doesn't make it ok to break the site guidelines, which you unfortunately did repeatedly in this thread. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
        uselesswords 1y ago
        Sorry, I was definitely snarky in my comments and if I could edit my comments to remove the snark and change the tone I would. However, your "It's great that you're in medical school and very aware" is very patronizing and pointedly dismissive. Its a superficially polite acknowledgment that feels sarcastic rather than genuinely complimentary. I don't really mind, and I acknowledge the point you're trying to make. But if your goal is to curate a curious discussion and avoid snark you should model it too.
uselesswords 1y ago
Here’s my anecdote for your anecdote. While there certainly are doctors who care about the flashy lifestyle, I know plenty more who truly care. Also medicine is an evidence-based practice because fundamentally our knowledge is woefully incomplete. Doctors are basically applied statisticians, the chemistry and biochemistry people are the researchers.

calf 1y ago

"Evidence-based" is a really problematic term when it is used to protect bureaucracies and medical managerialism, rather than actually interact with scientific processes in an ethical way. Their anecdote is actually a good example of why evidence-based logic is not the end-all.

uselesswords 1y ago
[flagged]
- echelon 1y ago
  Barry James Marshall
  - uselesswords 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - uselesswords 1y ago
      Since no one wants to explain and you I just got downvoted, Barry James Marshall is ironically an example of EBM and is HIMSELF an active proponent of EBM. He had a biological hypothesis that the scientific community disagreed with and tested it on himself for a case study to get data. That case study was successful and then became a clinical trial. That trial was replicated and shown to work. He then won a Nobel prize for that work and the risk he took. This is an evidence-based process. EBM doesn’t mean you disregard a N=1, it means you expand N=1 into N=10, then N=100,… before you apply something to the general population. This is loosely how phase-1,2,3,4 trials work in the US. Dismissing EBM because of Marshall is like dismissing all of math because someone disproved a popular conjecture like the local-to-global conjecture. Sure the community sentiment had it wrong, but the systematic logical approach of Math got it right. In Marshall’s case the community sentiment had it wrong, but the EBM approach eventually got it right. Half this thread doesn’t even know what they are arguing against.
  - manjalyc 1y ago
    Prof. Barry Marshall is an example of why Evidence-Based Medicine works against community sentiment.
- calf 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - uselesswords 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - calf 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - dang 1y ago
        You crossed repeatedly into personal attack in this thread. That's not ok and not allowed here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
    - dang 1y ago
      It's great that you're in medical school and very aware, but that doesn't make it ok to break the site guidelines, which you unfortunately did repeatedly in this thread. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
      - uselesswords 1y ago
        Sorry, I was definitely snarky in my comments and if I could edit my comments to remove the snark and change the tone I would. However, your "It's great that you're in medical school and very aware" is very patronizing and pointedly dismissive. Its a superficially polite acknowledgment that feels sarcastic rather than genuinely complimentary. I don't really mind, and I acknowledge the point you're trying to make. But if your goal is to curate a curious discussion and avoid snark you should model it too.

uselesswords 1y ago

Here’s my anecdote for your anecdote. While there certainly are doctors who care about the flashy lifestyle, I know plenty more who truly care. Also medicine is an evidence-based practice because fundamentally our knowledge is woefully incomplete. Doctors are basically applied statisticians, the chemistry and biochemistry people are the researchers.