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Thank you for pointing out the orders are mutual; this strengthens my point. What is the use of one in the described situation? To stabilize and avoid escalatio

Thank you for pointing out the orders are mutual; this strengthens my point. What is the use of one in the described situation? To stabilize and avoid escalation of the situation of "oh shit I'm so sorry I thought this was my friends room I am immediately leaving now"? Now neither of them can accidentally climb into the incorrect window that the other happens to be behind? The no contact order being a response to unintentional contact is just blatantly the wrong tool for the job.

tptacek 1y ago
Presumably after an event like that one of those two students would have strong preferences to avoid the other, and it's hard to see any cognizable interest for the school in overriding that preference; meanwhile, honoring that preference stands a good chance of foreclosing on future conflicts between the two. A college has a mission, and should draft and enforce rules that further that mission. Students at colleges should get used to the idea that joining most mission-oriented organizations will involve complying with some set of rules, because that will certainly be expected of them in the workforce. Again, I see the "fragility" narrative here in exactly the opposite way the WSJ article does: what's fragile to me is having a temper tantrum over being told that there's a mutual no-contact order in place between you and a student who doesn't want to be in contact with you.
- margalabargala 1y ago
  Presumably after an event like that, both of the two students will have lots of thoughts, opinions, and feelings about the event and one another. Not all of these should be indulged, and it's entirely possible that doing so would in fact get in the way of the university's mission by adding new roadblocks and considerations to the day to day life of multiple students. Part of being a young adult is learning how to operate in a society composed of people, something that developing teenage brains are not innately good at. And part of that learning process is not having all whims indulged, especially when they may be harmful to others.
  - tptacek 1y ago
    Students at universities are not necessarily young adults. It makes sense to me that the institutions would enact policies that safeguard their core mission at the least possible expense.
    - margalabargala 1y ago
      Should we take bets as to whether the two students in this particular story were young adults? No Contact orders are a useful tool. This isn't a case where they were the correct one to use. Universities here are simply doing what requires the least possible amount of administrative effort to protect the university from legal liability. Not uncommon among schools in the US, university or otherwise.
      - tptacek 1y ago
        It's not clear to me that there's an inappropriate time to use an NCO, so long as they're mutual and institution reasonably believes continued contact is going to cause drama, and thus expense. That's really all there is to the analysis as far as I'm concerned.
  - jncfhnb 1y ago
    A lot of people in adult society would shoot that guy dead on the spot or sue him penniless
    - margalabargala 1y ago
      Not in the civilized world generally, no.

tptacek 1y ago

Presumably after an event like that one of those two students would have strong preferences to avoid the other, and it's hard to see any cognizable interest for the school in overriding that preference; meanwhile, honoring that preference stands a good chance of foreclosing on future conflicts between the two. A college has a mission, and should draft and enforce rules that further that mission. Students at colleges should get used to the idea that joining most mission-oriented organizations will involve complying with some set of rules, because that will certainly be expected of them in the workforce. Again, I see the "fragility" narrative here in exactly the opposite way the WSJ article does: what's fragile to me is having a temper tantrum over being told that there's a mutual no-contact order in place between you and a student who doesn't want to be in contact with you.

margalabargala 1y ago
Presumably after an event like that, both of the two students will have lots of thoughts, opinions, and feelings about the event and one another. Not all of these should be indulged, and it's entirely possible that doing so would in fact get in the way of the university's mission by adding new roadblocks and considerations to the day to day life of multiple students. Part of being a young adult is learning how to operate in a society composed of people, something that developing teenage brains are not innately good at. And part of that learning process is not having all whims indulged, especially when they may be harmful to others.
- tptacek 1y ago
  Students at universities are not necessarily young adults. It makes sense to me that the institutions would enact policies that safeguard their core mission at the least possible expense.
  - margalabargala 1y ago
    Should we take bets as to whether the two students in this particular story were young adults? No Contact orders are a useful tool. This isn't a case where they were the correct one to use. Universities here are simply doing what requires the least possible amount of administrative effort to protect the university from legal liability. Not uncommon among schools in the US, university or otherwise.
    - tptacek 1y ago
      It's not clear to me that there's an inappropriate time to use an NCO, so long as they're mutual and institution reasonably believes continued contact is going to cause drama, and thus expense. That's really all there is to the analysis as far as I'm concerned.
- jncfhnb 1y ago
  A lot of people in adult society would shoot that guy dead on the spot or sue him penniless
  - margalabargala 1y ago
    Not in the civilized world generally, no.