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> Still, she added, rents are about 20% higher than pre-pandemic levels, and consumers remain concerned about their financial situation and job security in rece

by jayd16 1y ago

> Still, she added, rents are about 20% higher than pre-pandemic levels, and consumers remain concerned about their financial situation and job security in recent surveys. When people throw around the word shortage what they mean is "availability at a price I'm willing to pay." Same with labor shortages.

moron4hire 1y ago
That's... the definition of shortage
- lazide 1y ago
  I think they meant ‘that i’m happy to pay’. which is different.
- tiahura 1y ago
  Much of the narrative has been that the problem is because nimby boomers won’t allow apartment complexes in single family neighborhoods, there are simply not enough apartments.
  - WarOnPrivacy 1y ago
    We've been rewarding voices who want to lock the gate behind them. They want their area frozen at the moment they moved into their home. What we learned is that those voices are catastrophic for entire classes of people - like new families.
    - happytoexplain 1y ago
      This is oversimplified as an attack on the image of an enemy. Most people work hard as hell to call a place home, and understandably don't want their community "ruined", the definition of which they have variably (un)reasonable metrics for. That's the complicated truth. Yes, people also don't want things to change in general from the moment they called it home, but change isn't the same thing as "ruined".
  - 7e 1y ago
    No, the problem is that humans breed to fill the supply of housing, causing prices to go up again. The population of the U.S. has doubled since 1960. It’s a never ending cycle, only after every iteration, there is more pollution, less beauty, more greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere, more traffic, etc. It’s not sustainable. The solution is not to build, it is to reproduce sustainably and stop overrunning the planet with unchecked population growth. That implies limits on how much you can ruin a neighborhood with development.
- Lionga 1y ago
  [flagged]
- jayd16 1y ago
  I think most would imagine it meant low inventory over fixed prices. If you have millions of overpriced widgets, it's not intuitive to call that a widget shortage.
WarOnPrivacy 1y ago
> "availability at a price I'm willing to pay." For the many scores of millions of us, it's "not more than I can possibly pay". ref: lived thru the 400 applications per day per rental crisis in 2021.
elashri 1y ago
I think it is usually means "for the price I can afford". Housing as you can imagine is not luxury item in your life.
SubiculumCode 1y ago
So that is a good point. Demand is related to price. Lower the price, demand increases. Perhaps we've reached the point where all those who want and can afford apartments priced $x and above already have apartments, but there are not apartments priced $x-$z available. So we will just have to see if prices continue to drop.
wenc 1y ago
> When people throw around the word shortage what they mean is "availability at a price I'm willing to pay." Same with labor shortages. Yeah that's actually an incomplete and oversimplified statement. Some people think, "If you want something, just pay more". But that ignores short and long-run supply limits, price frictions, skill matching, and more. The correct Econ 101 version reads: "A shortage exists when, at the going price, the quantity people want to buy is greater than the quantity suppliers are willing or able to provide—labor markets included." You cannot expect imperfect markets (i.e. real world markets) to clear simply by raising or lowering prices. Real-world constraints exist. A simple example is this: Chicago has plenty of cheap, vacant units in higher-crime pockets of the South Side, but few buyers will take them. Meanwhile, exurbs with good schools and low crime have limited inventory because zoning caps and NIMBY politics choke new construction. That mismatch -- ample supply where demand is weak and capped supply where demand is strong -- creates a local housing shortage even though the citywide vacancy rate looks high. Price alone can't clear the market because the constraint is about where units are, not how many exist.

by jayd16 1y ago

moron4hire 1y ago

That's... the definition of shortage

lazide 1y ago
I think they meant ‘that i’m happy to pay’. which is different.
tiahura 1y ago
Much of the narrative has been that the problem is because nimby boomers won’t allow apartment complexes in single family neighborhoods, there are simply not enough apartments.
- WarOnPrivacy 1y ago
  We've been rewarding voices who want to lock the gate behind them. They want their area frozen at the moment they moved into their home. What we learned is that those voices are catastrophic for entire classes of people - like new families.
  - happytoexplain 1y ago
    This is oversimplified as an attack on the image of an enemy. Most people work hard as hell to call a place home, and understandably don't want their community "ruined", the definition of which they have variably (un)reasonable metrics for. That's the complicated truth. Yes, people also don't want things to change in general from the moment they called it home, but change isn't the same thing as "ruined".
- 7e 1y ago
  No, the problem is that humans breed to fill the supply of housing, causing prices to go up again. The population of the U.S. has doubled since 1960. It’s a never ending cycle, only after every iteration, there is more pollution, less beauty, more greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere, more traffic, etc. It’s not sustainable. The solution is not to build, it is to reproduce sustainably and stop overrunning the planet with unchecked population growth. That implies limits on how much you can ruin a neighborhood with development.
Lionga 1y ago
[flagged]
jayd16 1y ago
I think most would imagine it meant low inventory over fixed prices. If you have millions of overpriced widgets, it's not intuitive to call that a widget shortage.

WarOnPrivacy 1y ago

> "availability at a price I'm willing to pay." For the many scores of millions of us, it's "not more than I can possibly pay". ref: lived thru the 400 applications per day per rental crisis in 2021.

elashri 1y ago

I think it is usually means "for the price I can afford". Housing as you can imagine is not luxury item in your life.

SubiculumCode 1y ago

So that is a good point. Demand is related to price. Lower the price, demand increases. Perhaps we've reached the point where all those who want and can afford apartments priced $x and above already have apartments, but there are not apartments priced $x-$z available. So we will just have to see if prices continue to drop.

wenc 1y ago

> When people throw around the word shortage what they mean is "availability at a price I'm willing to pay." Same with labor shortages. Yeah that's actually an incomplete and oversimplified statement. Some people think, "If you want something, just pay more". But that ignores short and long-run supply limits, price frictions, skill matching, and more. The correct Econ 101 version reads: "A shortage exists when, at the going price, the quantity people want to buy is greater than the quantity suppliers are willing or able to provide—labor markets included." You cannot expect imperfect markets (i.e. real world markets) to clear simply by raising or lowering prices. Real-world constraints exist. A simple example is this: Chicago has plenty of cheap, vacant units in higher-crime pockets of the South Side, but few buyers will take them. Meanwhile, exurbs with good schools and low crime have limited inventory because zoning caps and NIMBY politics choke new construction. That mismatch -- ample supply where demand is weak and capped supply where demand is strong -- creates a local housing shortage even though the citywide vacancy rate looks high. Price alone can't clear the market because the constraint is about where units are, not how many exist.