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No. 1. China got here by using protectionism and stealing trade secrets. They subsidized their domestic producers and forced foreign entities to partner and tr

No. 1. China got here by using protectionism and stealing trade secrets. They subsidized their domestic producers and forced foreign entities to partner and train domestic nationals. They used protectionism to leapfrog us. We shouldn't just let them in and destroy our own capacity. 2. Manufacturing is necessary for a country that plans to go to war. America (and every nation!) needs a strong industrial plant to counter its enemies. Without the ability to switch to making warplanes, tanks, and drones, you'll be unable to fight a drawn out war. 3. We're really not that far behind and our industry will be fine. There's way too much panic here. > For those worried about national self-sufficiency, the answer can be public transit, not cars. This is highly opinionated r/fuckcars anti-"carbrain" (as they call it). This does not work in America. It's an opinion of city dwellers who have no exposure to the rest of the country. Self-driving cars will transform public Transit in this country to be more automotive and less rail based. Not the other way around.

brookst 1y ago
1. While China does engage in industrial espionage, they have also learned from being contract manufacturers. I’m very uncomfortable with the “how dare my unskilled labor learn from what I pay them to do and become skilled” part of this meme. 2. I don’t think anyone could seriously look at the US and worry that we might not be able to make enough military hardware. What country makes more weapons than the US? 3. The US auto industry is somewhere between dead and absorbed into the globalized auto industry. Their cost structure can’t compete and the US’ cratering international reputation means exports are falling and China has growth opportunities. Where I do agree with you is that there’s no reason to panic. All of these things are just fine.
NewJazz 1y ago
How can a car factory easily pivot to making weapons or even armored vehicles? I don't think that is a realistic approach to DIB readiness. Armored vehicles can be somewhat useful in some war scenarios, but even Abrams tanks weren't enough to turn the tide in Ukraine.
- to11mtm 1y ago
  > How can a car factory easily pivot to making weapons or even armored vehicles? It's probably a bit trickier now, but If sewing machine and typewriter companies used to make machine guns in wartime there's probably a way if there is will.
const_cast 1y ago
> This does not work in America. It's an opinion of city dwellers who have no exposure to the rest of the country. It's worked in America longer than it hasn't worked. Car-centric infrastructure is actually pretty new, and we basically burned down a lot of rail infrastructure to build it. The fundamental problem with automobiles is that they're orders of magnitude less efficient per person, so they can't scale. You hit a wall, and then you're just fucked and the only solution is to pivot away from automobiles. No amount of self-driving, or more lanes, or toll roads, will fix that - it's a fundamental problem with the technology itself and how it exists in the world. I mean, try driving around in Houston today. It's shit, but more than that, it's completely unfixable. 14 lane highways don't magically resolve the problem of everyone having their own little box on wheels they control. Also, on the topic of urban centers and city dwellers: most Americans live in major metropolitan areas and those areas also make up almost all of the economy in the US. Yes, rural areas are important, but nobody is "targeting" them, so to speak. Those areas are already heavily subsidized by denser areas because that's just how infrastructure how.
suraci 1y ago
> China got here by using protectionism and stealing trade secrets and uyghur forced labor! Check these: > Human Rights Watch warns carmakers over China forced labour risk https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/human-rights-watch-warns-carmakers-over-china-forced-labour-risk-2024-02-01/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/human-... > Carmakers may be using aluminium made by Uyghur forced labour, NGO investigation finds https://www.theguardian.com/law/2024/feb/01/car-manufacturers-toyota-volkswagen-tesla-general-motors-byd-alleged-forced-labour-aluminium-uyghur https://www.theguardian.com/law/2024/feb/01/car-manufacturer... > China: Carmakers Implicated in Uyghur Forced Labor https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/01/china-carmakers-implicated-uyghur-forced-labor https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/01/china-carmakers-implicat...

brookst 1y ago

1. While China does engage in industrial espionage, they have also learned from being contract manufacturers. I’m very uncomfortable with the “how dare my unskilled labor learn from what I pay them to do and become skilled” part of this meme. 2. I don’t think anyone could seriously look at the US and worry that we might not be able to make enough military hardware. What country makes more weapons than the US? 3. The US auto industry is somewhere between dead and absorbed into the globalized auto industry. Their cost structure can’t compete and the US’ cratering international reputation means exports are falling and China has growth opportunities. Where I do agree with you is that there’s no reason to panic. All of these things are just fine.

NewJazz 1y ago

How can a car factory easily pivot to making weapons or even armored vehicles? I don't think that is a realistic approach to DIB readiness. Armored vehicles can be somewhat useful in some war scenarios, but even Abrams tanks weren't enough to turn the tide in Ukraine.

to11mtm 1y ago
> How can a car factory easily pivot to making weapons or even armored vehicles? It's probably a bit trickier now, but If sewing machine and typewriter companies used to make machine guns in wartime there's probably a way if there is will.

const_cast 1y ago

> This does not work in America. It's an opinion of city dwellers who have no exposure to the rest of the country. It's worked in America longer than it hasn't worked. Car-centric infrastructure is actually pretty new, and we basically burned down a lot of rail infrastructure to build it. The fundamental problem with automobiles is that they're orders of magnitude less efficient per person, so they can't scale. You hit a wall, and then you're just fucked and the only solution is to pivot away from automobiles. No amount of self-driving, or more lanes, or toll roads, will fix that - it's a fundamental problem with the technology itself and how it exists in the world. I mean, try driving around in Houston today. It's shit, but more than that, it's completely unfixable. 14 lane highways don't magically resolve the problem of everyone having their own little box on wheels they control. Also, on the topic of urban centers and city dwellers: most Americans live in major metropolitan areas and those areas also make up almost all of the economy in the US. Yes, rural areas are important, but nobody is "targeting" them, so to speak. Those areas are already heavily subsidized by denser areas because that's just how infrastructure how.

suraci 1y ago

> China got here by using protectionism and stealing trade secrets and uyghur forced labor! Check these: > Human Rights Watch warns carmakers over China forced labour risk https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/human-rights-watch-warns-carmakers-over-china-forced-labour-risk-2024-02-01/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/human-... > Carmakers may be using aluminium made by Uyghur forced labour, NGO investigation finds https://www.theguardian.com/law/2024/feb/01/car-manufacturers-toyota-volkswagen-tesla-general-motors-byd-alleged-forced-labour-aluminium-uyghur https://www.theguardian.com/law/2024/feb/01/car-manufacturer... > China: Carmakers Implicated in Uyghur Forced Labor https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/01/china-carmakers-implicated-uyghur-forced-labor https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/02/01/china-carmakers-implicat...