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> Emacs is a powerful tool, but it also demands a lot from its user. Eventually I got tired of dealing with the host of plugins and customizations that I needed

> Emacs is a powerful tool, but it also demands a lot from its user. Eventually I got tired of dealing with the host of plugins and customizations that I needed to keep my system running the way I wanted. I'm at a point in my life where I would rather spend my spare time on hobbies, hanging out with family and friends, and otherwise not messing around with a patchwork of ELisp code snippets that I've cobbled together from various sources. I gradually stopped using Emacs in favor of more modern tools that are less flexible but also less of a hassle. I don't know how many times I've read a variation on this. It took me a very long time, but now I pretty much made my peace with that: I use Emacs (for certain things), I use VS Code (with Emacs bindings), I use Apple Notes.. I don't find that it's possible or reasonable anymore, the desire to be "pure" and use only ONE tool to rule them all. The same for messaging apps, chatbots, etc.. I now embrace extreme diversity.

coltoneakins 1y ago
This makes me feel seen. I was a lunatic at one point trying to make Emacs to be my end-all-be-all. I learned to cope with multiple programs being my "toolset" since then.
nextos 1y ago
> Eventually I got tired of dealing with the host of plugins and customizations The trick is to stick to as few packages and as little configuration as possible. And when opting to install a package, sticking to something popular and well maintained. This leads to a small and robust setup with little churn. Most built-in packages work out of the box. Most defaults make a lot of sense. Emacs is really tidy these days compared to where it was one decade ago. Package management has been key facilitating this. Personally, I use major packages like AUCTeX, Org, Magit, or gptel with little to no customization and I avoid installing lesser known packages that build on top of them as I have found this to be a major source of fragility. You can get a lot of functionality from a boring 50 LOC .emacs/init.el that consists of a few straightforward use-package directives.
edanm 1y ago
> I don't find that it's possible or reasonable anymore, the desire to be "pure" and use only ONE tool to rule them all. It's not about being "pure". I was originally interested in Emacs because of the idea of only ever having to learn to use one tool, that would give me a better experience in many different domains. Since, as you say, that doesn't really work, I personally don't find using Emacs compelling anymore, hence my not using it. (I actually used vim for a long time, then Emacs briefly, and now VSCode/Cursor/other things as the need arises.)
- nextos 1y ago
  In what ways do you find VSCode or Cursor superior or more convenient to Emacs?
  - edanm 1y ago
    Note that I worked with Emacs already a few years ago, and it was Spacemacs specifically. That said, VSCode is - much nicer looking, a lot of things come working out of the box that I had to work hard to make work in Emacs (even with Spacemacs), a lot of great plugins exist and are easy to add to VSCode. Really it's the "great experience out of the box" and lack of weird edge cases where custom code/plugins interact with other custom code/plugins in ways that don't work well. And the vim mode in Spacemacs was great, probably best in class, but the vim mode in VSCode is also pretty good. Missing a bunch of stuff but close enough.
    - nextos 1y ago
      Makes sense. I have no experience with Vi-like layers built on top of Emacs, but I think standard Emacs is much easier to use right now than it was in the past. Most major packages work really well with zero configuration. There's even a LSP mode (eglot) built in. I think the problem is that most advanced users have incredibly convoluted .emacs files, mainly for historical reasons, and this has given Emacs a reputation of being overly complex and difficult to set up. IMHO, the great advantage of Emacs is that it will always be around, and it's really open to customization in case you ever need that.

coltoneakins 1y ago

This makes me feel seen. I was a lunatic at one point trying to make Emacs to be my end-all-be-all. I learned to cope with multiple programs being my "toolset" since then.

nextos 1y ago

> Eventually I got tired of dealing with the host of plugins and customizations The trick is to stick to as few packages and as little configuration as possible. And when opting to install a package, sticking to something popular and well maintained. This leads to a small and robust setup with little churn. Most built-in packages work out of the box. Most defaults make a lot of sense. Emacs is really tidy these days compared to where it was one decade ago. Package management has been key facilitating this. Personally, I use major packages like AUCTeX, Org, Magit, or gptel with little to no customization and I avoid installing lesser known packages that build on top of them as I have found this to be a major source of fragility. You can get a lot of functionality from a boring 50 LOC .emacs/init.el that consists of a few straightforward use-package directives.

edanm 1y ago

> I don't find that it's possible or reasonable anymore, the desire to be "pure" and use only ONE tool to rule them all. It's not about being "pure". I was originally interested in Emacs because of the idea of only ever having to learn to use one tool, that would give me a better experience in many different domains. Since, as you say, that doesn't really work, I personally don't find using Emacs compelling anymore, hence my not using it. (I actually used vim for a long time, then Emacs briefly, and now VSCode/Cursor/other things as the need arises.)

nextos 1y ago
In what ways do you find VSCode or Cursor superior or more convenient to Emacs?
- edanm 1y ago
  Note that I worked with Emacs already a few years ago, and it was Spacemacs specifically. That said, VSCode is - much nicer looking, a lot of things come working out of the box that I had to work hard to make work in Emacs (even with Spacemacs), a lot of great plugins exist and are easy to add to VSCode. Really it's the "great experience out of the box" and lack of weird edge cases where custom code/plugins interact with other custom code/plugins in ways that don't work well. And the vim mode in Spacemacs was great, probably best in class, but the vim mode in VSCode is also pretty good. Missing a bunch of stuff but close enough.
  - nextos 1y ago
    Makes sense. I have no experience with Vi-like layers built on top of Emacs, but I think standard Emacs is much easier to use right now than it was in the past. Most major packages work really well with zero configuration. There's even a LSP mode (eglot) built in. I think the problem is that most advanced users have incredibly convoluted .emacs files, mainly for historical reasons, and this has given Emacs a reputation of being overly complex and difficult to set up. IMHO, the great advantage of Emacs is that it will always be around, and it's really open to customization in case you ever need that.