5 ms·

> That's true, but that's no reason to go from an imperfect solution to a nonsolution. This is textbook politician's fallacy. Yes, it may be preferable to cont

> That's true, but that's no reason to go from an imperfect solution to a nonsolution. This is textbook politician's fallacy. Yes, it may be preferable to continue with a "non-solution" if the solution proposed is stupid enough.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
creata 1y ago
No it's not. I'm saying don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. DoH does solve a problem for many people. Many large ISPs will sell your DNS requests, use them for targeted advertising, tamper with responses for various reasons, etc., and so DoH is an improvement over the status quo--not for everyone, but for many users, and I'd guess most users. You're right, DoH might not be worth adopting if it were "stupid enough", but... it's not stupid enough.
- AshamedCaptain 1y ago
  Your ISP already has all this metadata and more from other sources, so it is pointless to switch to DoH in this case, and if you do you willingly give this metadata to Cloudflare, which (for the majority of users) may even be in a better position to do evil.
  - haiku2077 1y ago
    > Your ISP already has all this metadata and more from other sources If you combine this with ECH and a good blocker, no they do not. That's exactly why Spain is blocking around 60% of the internet during football games now; the ISPs cannot tell which websites and subscribers are pirating football streams.
    - AshamedCaptain 1y ago
      > Spain is blocking around 60% of the internet during football games now [citation needed for the 60% figure] Precisely due to these blocks is why I know that Cloudflare is NOT 60% of the WWW, not yet at least. Certainly, if Cloudflare was serving 60% of the Internet, I would consider switching my DNS to them. But that would be a privacy nightmare for another day (replacing federated ISPs with a single big centralized one? great idea /s). It is not yet the case as of today. In fact, as of today, and even if you have a "good blocker", I, a total noob, have a high chance of reliably identifying which HN news item from the top #30 you clicked from just the addresses: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44219061 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44219061 . Imagine what the non-noobs at your ISP could do.
nmcfarl 1y ago
To save some googling the Politicians Fallacy is this one: We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
haiku2077 1y ago
In the Politician's Fallacy, the chosen solution doesn't solve the problem. In this example, DoH solves many of the problems, perhaps not optimally, but better than the "do nothing" choice.
- AshamedCaptain 1y ago
  So it doesn't really solve the problem, and may generate more (privacy) problems of its own. "doing nothing" may be the better solution here, which was the entire point made in the original episode.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

creata 1y ago

No it's not. I'm saying don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. DoH does solve a problem for many people. Many large ISPs will sell your DNS requests, use them for targeted advertising, tamper with responses for various reasons, etc., and so DoH is an improvement over the status quo--not for everyone, but for many users, and I'd guess most users. You're right, DoH might not be worth adopting if it were "stupid enough", but... it's not stupid enough.

AshamedCaptain 1y ago
Your ISP already has all this metadata and more from other sources, so it is pointless to switch to DoH in this case, and if you do you willingly give this metadata to Cloudflare, which (for the majority of users) may even be in a better position to do evil.
- haiku2077 1y ago
  > Your ISP already has all this metadata and more from other sources If you combine this with ECH and a good blocker, no they do not. That's exactly why Spain is blocking around 60% of the internet during football games now; the ISPs cannot tell which websites and subscribers are pirating football streams.
  - AshamedCaptain 1y ago
    > Spain is blocking around 60% of the internet during football games now [citation needed for the 60% figure] Precisely due to these blocks is why I know that Cloudflare is NOT 60% of the WWW, not yet at least. Certainly, if Cloudflare was serving 60% of the Internet, I would consider switching my DNS to them. But that would be a privacy nightmare for another day (replacing federated ISPs with a single big centralized one? great idea /s). It is not yet the case as of today. In fact, as of today, and even if you have a "good blocker", I, a total noob, have a high chance of reliably identifying which HN news item from the top #30 you clicked from just the addresses: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44219061 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44219061 . Imagine what the non-noobs at your ISP could do.

nmcfarl 1y ago

To save some googling the Politicians Fallacy is this one: We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.

haiku2077 1y ago

In the Politician's Fallacy, the chosen solution doesn't solve the problem. In this example, DoH solves many of the problems, perhaps not optimally, but better than the "do nothing" choice.

AshamedCaptain 1y ago
So it doesn't really solve the problem, and may generate more (privacy) problems of its own. "doing nothing" may be the better solution here, which was the entire point made in the original episode.