4 ms·

The world is no longer a serious place. Everybody is turbo-infantilised via social media. I don't know if that's indeed the root cause or if it's a combination

The world is no longer a serious place. Everybody is turbo-infantilised via social media. I don't know if that's indeed the root cause or if it's a combination of factors, but the fact remains that people don't even feel the need to _pretend to care_ about honesty, character, seriousness, etc.

SoftTalker 1y ago
I think they might have figured out that a lot of that honesty and character was a facade. Is the false appearance of morality better than just showing yourself as you really are?
- dasil003 1y ago
  You mean that people lie and cheat? That's always been the case. The point of honesty and character is precisely that they reflect a person's ability to value a higher good than their immediate self-interest. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The fact that reputation has been subjected to unprecedented arms race in the face of the internet and social media doesn't fundamentally change the game, it just makes it more exhausting and overwhelming to pay attention to.
- cycomanic 1y ago
  That always brings to mind this comic: https://condenaststore.com/featured/he-tells-it-like-it-is-paul-noth.html https://condenaststore.com/featured/he-tells-it-like-it-is-p...
Gigachad 1y ago
This kind of stuff would not fly in Australia. Not to say that there is no corruption, but that it isn’t absolutely blatant and ignored.
- Waterluvian 1y ago
  Yeah. Same in Canada. Nowhere is free from corruption, but the magnitude and danger of this problem is uniquely American.
  - slavik81 1y ago
    I have lived in Alberta my entire life and that used to be true here. It's different now. There's blatant corruption from our provincial government in the news every few months, but it seems like that's just accepted now. Things are not trending in a good direction in Canada.
    - sirtaj 1y ago
      The far right pretty much across the world is learning just how fragile and consensus-based the institutions of democracy are all at once. They're watching and learning from each other. Hence you have people like Bannon involved in similar tricks in multiple countries.
    - Waterluvian 1y ago
      Oddly enough Albertans poll Carney as favourably as Poilievre. So I see what you see but in general I do not believe it’s actually that bad. Plus Alberta has always on again off again thrown middle-child tantrums.
- Merad 1y ago
  Are you really so sure? I think the vast majority of Americans would have expressed the same sentiment less than 10 years ago.
  - Gigachad 1y ago
    Obviously I can’t tell you what will happen in 10 years, but if the Prime Minister of Australia did even one days worth of Trumps actions he would be removed within a month or two. Australia also doesn’t have an almost religious worship of politicians. Australians don’t identify as members of a particular party unless they literally are part of it.
    - alfiedotwtf 1y ago
      There’s a huge difference between the US and Australia here that you slightly touch on - in Australia, the Prime Minister can be removed by the ruling party at any time vs the US where removing the sitting President can only be done via a handful of items from the Constitution
      - mvdtnz 1y ago
        Don't play coy. If a small number of Republican representatives decided they would impeach Trump they would have absolutely no problem getting the votes they need and you know it. They don't do it because that's not what they want.
        megamyth 1y ago
        Republican representatives are lobbyists to the public for the 1%. It was clear that they hated Trump and wanted him out in his first run and what they want matters as much as what a car salesman wants for Ford.
        intended 1y ago
        Republicans have said clearly that they will only act when core support for trump drops. And that has not dropped no matter what.
- emptysongglass 1y ago
  Your government recently mandated technical capabilities for breaking encryption. Australians let that fly. There is nothing special about Australians, just as there is also nothing special about the British people who also did nothing when the UK mandated technical capabilities to break encryption. One could even make the argument that the people of these two countries are even more pliant than Americans when they enable a key capability for totalitarian surveillance states without a blink.
  - Gigachad 1y ago
    There was nothing blatantly corrupt or illegal going on there, it went through the normal process and was unfortunately supported by both major parties. I’m not saying objectionable laws never get implemented. I’m saying the Prime Minister is not a dictator with limitless power.
- jamil7 1y ago
  The corruption in state government, especially WA for example is pretty blatant but I get your point.
- FireBeyond 1y ago
  Only with a lot of effort. I'm old enough to remember the ICAC in NSW and the CCC in Queensland (Joh Bjelke-Petersen was a bit before my time)... the widespread "travel expenses" fraud that permeated for YEARS.
gambiting 1y ago
I remember when certain social media networks argued that having a real name policy will lead to a more polite, kinder internet, because people won't be as rude with their real names attached to their posts. Turns out, people really don't care. I see the most vile, disgusting, racist, xenophobic shit on Facebook every single day, with real names and pictures showing smiling happy people hugging their kids on every one of them. Like you said - people don't feel any need to care about honesty, character, or even appearance of politeness or good manners.
pantalaimon 1y ago
Social media is easy to blame, but we had something similar, but worse happening in Germany well before the invention of the computer even. Human society has not developed an antidote to charismatic demagogues yet I'm afraid.
- aerhardt 1y ago
  Human society is limited in the antidotes to human nature that it can code through law, institutions or culture. It’s the same species throughout 1930’s Germany and today. We shouldn’t give up on law, institutions or culture, but accepting our failings instead of seeing humans as a perfectible project can at least give us solace in confusing times.
- herewulf 1y ago
  Sorry, but Germany had just suffered a humiliating defeat and was punished severely for WWI in which all sides were equally guilty for all of it. When did something of this magnitude just happen in the USA? P.S.: This does not excuse Germany's actions wrt. WWII but it does help to explain.
  - Scea91 1y ago
    > WWI in which all sides were equally guilty for all of it. Not true, while Germany was not solely responsible, it and Austria-Hungary were much more responsible than others.
  - DoctorOW 1y ago
    For many reasons (including the ones above) it's difficult for any institution within reach of the US government to analyze how the alt-right took power but from what I can tell the US economy is in a slow burn. It's been receiving patches roughly once a presidency but it turns out you can't combine a lot of short term solutions to make a long term one. Fixing the economy would require bold decisions and the parties took two different directions. The Republican party realized that any bold policy would get votes regardless of any other factor including coherency. This is why Trump supporters, when asked about their logic usually give some form of "things are bad, and they didn't used to be". To summarize, there are competing ideas for what got us here, but I think it was less of a real inciting event like WW1 and more of a breaking point that was eventually reached.

SoftTalker 1y ago

I think they might have figured out that a lot of that honesty and character was a facade. Is the false appearance of morality better than just showing yourself as you really are?

dasil003 1y ago
You mean that people lie and cheat? That's always been the case. The point of honesty and character is precisely that they reflect a person's ability to value a higher good than their immediate self-interest. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The fact that reputation has been subjected to unprecedented arms race in the face of the internet and social media doesn't fundamentally change the game, it just makes it more exhausting and overwhelming to pay attention to.
cycomanic 1y ago
That always brings to mind this comic: https://condenaststore.com/featured/he-tells-it-like-it-is-paul-noth.html https://condenaststore.com/featured/he-tells-it-like-it-is-p...

Gigachad 1y ago

This kind of stuff would not fly in Australia. Not to say that there is no corruption, but that it isn’t absolutely blatant and ignored.

Waterluvian 1y ago
Yeah. Same in Canada. Nowhere is free from corruption, but the magnitude and danger of this problem is uniquely American.
- slavik81 1y ago
  I have lived in Alberta my entire life and that used to be true here. It's different now. There's blatant corruption from our provincial government in the news every few months, but it seems like that's just accepted now. Things are not trending in a good direction in Canada.
  - sirtaj 1y ago
    The far right pretty much across the world is learning just how fragile and consensus-based the institutions of democracy are all at once. They're watching and learning from each other. Hence you have people like Bannon involved in similar tricks in multiple countries.
  - Waterluvian 1y ago
    Oddly enough Albertans poll Carney as favourably as Poilievre. So I see what you see but in general I do not believe it’s actually that bad. Plus Alberta has always on again off again thrown middle-child tantrums.
Merad 1y ago
Are you really so sure? I think the vast majority of Americans would have expressed the same sentiment less than 10 years ago.
- Gigachad 1y ago
  Obviously I can’t tell you what will happen in 10 years, but if the Prime Minister of Australia did even one days worth of Trumps actions he would be removed within a month or two. Australia also doesn’t have an almost religious worship of politicians. Australians don’t identify as members of a particular party unless they literally are part of it.
  - alfiedotwtf 1y ago
    There’s a huge difference between the US and Australia here that you slightly touch on - in Australia, the Prime Minister can be removed by the ruling party at any time vs the US where removing the sitting President can only be done via a handful of items from the Constitution
    - mvdtnz 1y ago
      Don't play coy. If a small number of Republican representatives decided they would impeach Trump they would have absolutely no problem getting the votes they need and you know it. They don't do it because that's not what they want.
      - megamyth 1y ago
        Republican representatives are lobbyists to the public for the 1%. It was clear that they hated Trump and wanted him out in his first run and what they want matters as much as what a car salesman wants for Ford.
      - intended 1y ago
        Republicans have said clearly that they will only act when core support for trump drops. And that has not dropped no matter what.
emptysongglass 1y ago
Your government recently mandated technical capabilities for breaking encryption. Australians let that fly. There is nothing special about Australians, just as there is also nothing special about the British people who also did nothing when the UK mandated technical capabilities to break encryption. One could even make the argument that the people of these two countries are even more pliant than Americans when they enable a key capability for totalitarian surveillance states without a blink.
- Gigachad 1y ago
  There was nothing blatantly corrupt or illegal going on there, it went through the normal process and was unfortunately supported by both major parties. I’m not saying objectionable laws never get implemented. I’m saying the Prime Minister is not a dictator with limitless power.
jamil7 1y ago
The corruption in state government, especially WA for example is pretty blatant but I get your point.
FireBeyond 1y ago
Only with a lot of effort. I'm old enough to remember the ICAC in NSW and the CCC in Queensland (Joh Bjelke-Petersen was a bit before my time)... the widespread "travel expenses" fraud that permeated for YEARS.

gambiting 1y ago

I remember when certain social media networks argued that having a real name policy will lead to a more polite, kinder internet, because people won't be as rude with their real names attached to their posts. Turns out, people really don't care. I see the most vile, disgusting, racist, xenophobic shit on Facebook every single day, with real names and pictures showing smiling happy people hugging their kids on every one of them. Like you said - people don't feel any need to care about honesty, character, or even appearance of politeness or good manners.

pantalaimon 1y ago

Social media is easy to blame, but we had something similar, but worse happening in Germany well before the invention of the computer even. Human society has not developed an antidote to charismatic demagogues yet I'm afraid.

aerhardt 1y ago
Human society is limited in the antidotes to human nature that it can code through law, institutions or culture. It’s the same species throughout 1930’s Germany and today. We shouldn’t give up on law, institutions or culture, but accepting our failings instead of seeing humans as a perfectible project can at least give us solace in confusing times.
herewulf 1y ago
Sorry, but Germany had just suffered a humiliating defeat and was punished severely for WWI in which all sides were equally guilty for all of it. When did something of this magnitude just happen in the USA? P.S.: This does not excuse Germany's actions wrt. WWII but it does help to explain.
- Scea91 1y ago
  > WWI in which all sides were equally guilty for all of it. Not true, while Germany was not solely responsible, it and Austria-Hungary were much more responsible than others.
- DoctorOW 1y ago
  For many reasons (including the ones above) it's difficult for any institution within reach of the US government to analyze how the alt-right took power but from what I can tell the US economy is in a slow burn. It's been receiving patches roughly once a presidency but it turns out you can't combine a lot of short term solutions to make a long term one. Fixing the economy would require bold decisions and the parties took two different directions. The Republican party realized that any bold policy would get votes regardless of any other factor including coherency. This is why Trump supporters, when asked about their logic usually give some form of "things are bad, and they didn't used to be". To summarize, there are competing ideas for what got us here, but I think it was less of a real inciting event like WW1 and more of a breaking point that was eventually reached.