4 ms·

This is why the standard for something to be considered improper behavior is (or used to be) the appearance of a conflict of interest. People stopped giving a

by creato 1y ago

This is why the standard for something to be considered improper behavior is (or used to be) the appearance of a conflict of interest. People stopped giving a shit about anything. This is just one of dozens of things that would have been totally unacceptable a few years ago.

andrepd 1y ago
The world is no longer a serious place. Everybody is turbo-infantilised via social media. I don't know if that's indeed the root cause or if it's a combination of factors, but the fact remains that people don't even feel the need to _pretend to care_ about honesty, character, seriousness, etc.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  I think they might have figured out that a lot of that honesty and character was a facade. Is the false appearance of morality better than just showing yourself as you really are?
  - dasil003 1y ago
    You mean that people lie and cheat? That's always been the case. The point of honesty and character is precisely that they reflect a person's ability to value a higher good than their immediate self-interest. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The fact that reputation has been subjected to unprecedented arms race in the face of the internet and social media doesn't fundamentally change the game, it just makes it more exhausting and overwhelming to pay attention to.
  - cycomanic 1y ago
    That always brings to mind this comic: https://condenaststore.com/featured/he-tells-it-like-it-is-paul-noth.html https://condenaststore.com/featured/he-tells-it-like-it-is-p...
- Gigachad 1y ago
  This kind of stuff would not fly in Australia. Not to say that there is no corruption, but that it isn’t absolutely blatant and ignored.
  - Waterluvian 1y ago
    Yeah. Same in Canada. Nowhere is free from corruption, but the magnitude and danger of this problem is uniquely American.
    - slavik81 1y ago
      I have lived in Alberta my entire life and that used to be true here. It's different now. There's blatant corruption from our provincial government in the news every few months, but it seems like that's just accepted now. Things are not trending in a good direction in Canada.
      - sirtaj 1y ago
        The far right pretty much across the world is learning just how fragile and consensus-based the institutions of democracy are all at once. They're watching and learning from each other. Hence you have people like Bannon involved in similar tricks in multiple countries.
      - Waterluvian 1y ago
        Oddly enough Albertans poll Carney as favourably as Poilievre. So I see what you see but in general I do not believe it’s actually that bad. Plus Alberta has always on again off again thrown middle-child tantrums.
  - Merad 1y ago
    Are you really so sure? I think the vast majority of Americans would have expressed the same sentiment less than 10 years ago.
    - Gigachad 1y ago
- gambiting 1y ago
  I remember when certain social media networks argued that having a real name policy will lead to a more polite, kinder internet, because people won't be as rude with their real names attached to their posts. Turns out, people really don't care. I see the most vile, disgusting, racist, xenophobic shit on Facebook every single day, with real names and pictures showing smiling happy people hugging their kids on every one of them. Like you said - people don't feel any need to care about honesty, character, or even appearance of politeness or good manners.
- pantalaimon 1y ago
  Social media is easy to blame, but we had something similar, but worse happening in Germany well before the invention of the computer even. Human society has not developed an antidote to charismatic demagogues yet I'm afraid.
  - aerhardt 1y ago
    Human society is limited in the antidotes to human nature that it can code through law, institutions or culture. It’s the same species throughout 1930’s Germany and today. We shouldn’t give up on law, institutions or culture, but accepting our failings instead of seeing humans as a perfectible project can at least give us solace in confusing times.
  - herewulf 1y ago
    Sorry, but Germany had just suffered a humiliating defeat and was punished severely for WWI in which all sides were equally guilty for all of it. When did something of this magnitude just happen in the USA? P.S.: This does not excuse Germany's actions wrt. WWII but it does help to explain.
    - Scea91 1y ago
      > WWI in which all sides were equally guilty for all of it. Not true, while Germany was not solely responsible, it and Austria-Hungary were much more responsible than others.
    - DoctorOW 1y ago
      For many reasons (including the ones above) it's difficult for any institution within reach of the US government to analyze how the alt-right took power but from what I can tell the US economy is in a slow burn. It's been receiving patches roughly once a presidency but it turns out you can't combine a lot of short term solutions to make a long term one. Fixing the economy would require bold decisions and the parties took two different directions. The Republican party realized that any bold policy would get votes regardless of any other factor including coherency. This is why Trump supporters, when asked about their logic usually give some form of "things are bad, and they didn't used to be". To summarize, there are competing ideas for what got us here, but I think it was less of a real inciting event like WW1 and more of a breaking point that was eventually reached.

by creato 1y ago

andrepd 1y ago

The world is no longer a serious place. Everybody is turbo-infantilised via social media. I don't know if that's indeed the root cause or if it's a combination of factors, but the fact remains that people don't even feel the need to _pretend to care_ about honesty, character, seriousness, etc.

SoftTalker 1y ago
I think they might have figured out that a lot of that honesty and character was a facade. Is the false appearance of morality better than just showing yourself as you really are?
- dasil003 1y ago
  You mean that people lie and cheat? That's always been the case. The point of honesty and character is precisely that they reflect a person's ability to value a higher good than their immediate self-interest. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The fact that reputation has been subjected to unprecedented arms race in the face of the internet and social media doesn't fundamentally change the game, it just makes it more exhausting and overwhelming to pay attention to.
- cycomanic 1y ago
  That always brings to mind this comic: https://condenaststore.com/featured/he-tells-it-like-it-is-paul-noth.html https://condenaststore.com/featured/he-tells-it-like-it-is-p...
Gigachad 1y ago
This kind of stuff would not fly in Australia. Not to say that there is no corruption, but that it isn’t absolutely blatant and ignored.
- Waterluvian 1y ago
  Yeah. Same in Canada. Nowhere is free from corruption, but the magnitude and danger of this problem is uniquely American.
  - slavik81 1y ago
    I have lived in Alberta my entire life and that used to be true here. It's different now. There's blatant corruption from our provincial government in the news every few months, but it seems like that's just accepted now. Things are not trending in a good direction in Canada.
    - sirtaj 1y ago
      The far right pretty much across the world is learning just how fragile and consensus-based the institutions of democracy are all at once. They're watching and learning from each other. Hence you have people like Bannon involved in similar tricks in multiple countries.
    - Waterluvian 1y ago
      Oddly enough Albertans poll Carney as favourably as Poilievre. So I see what you see but in general I do not believe it’s actually that bad. Plus Alberta has always on again off again thrown middle-child tantrums.
- Merad 1y ago
  Are you really so sure? I think the vast majority of Americans would have expressed the same sentiment less than 10 years ago.
  - Gigachad 1y ago
gambiting 1y ago
I remember when certain social media networks argued that having a real name policy will lead to a more polite, kinder internet, because people won't be as rude with their real names attached to their posts. Turns out, people really don't care. I see the most vile, disgusting, racist, xenophobic shit on Facebook every single day, with real names and pictures showing smiling happy people hugging their kids on every one of them. Like you said - people don't feel any need to care about honesty, character, or even appearance of politeness or good manners.
pantalaimon 1y ago
Social media is easy to blame, but we had something similar, but worse happening in Germany well before the invention of the computer even. Human society has not developed an antidote to charismatic demagogues yet I'm afraid.
- aerhardt 1y ago
  Human society is limited in the antidotes to human nature that it can code through law, institutions or culture. It’s the same species throughout 1930’s Germany and today. We shouldn’t give up on law, institutions or culture, but accepting our failings instead of seeing humans as a perfectible project can at least give us solace in confusing times.
- herewulf 1y ago
  Sorry, but Germany had just suffered a humiliating defeat and was punished severely for WWI in which all sides were equally guilty for all of it. When did something of this magnitude just happen in the USA? P.S.: This does not excuse Germany's actions wrt. WWII but it does help to explain.
  - Scea91 1y ago
    > WWI in which all sides were equally guilty for all of it. Not true, while Germany was not solely responsible, it and Austria-Hungary were much more responsible than others.
  - DoctorOW 1y ago
    For many reasons (including the ones above) it's difficult for any institution within reach of the US government to analyze how the alt-right took power but from what I can tell the US economy is in a slow burn. It's been receiving patches roughly once a presidency but it turns out you can't combine a lot of short term solutions to make a long term one. Fixing the economy would require bold decisions and the parties took two different directions. The Republican party realized that any bold policy would get votes regardless of any other factor including coherency. This is why Trump supporters, when asked about their logic usually give some form of "things are bad, and they didn't used to be". To summarize, there are competing ideas for what got us here, but I think it was less of a real inciting event like WW1 and more of a breaking point that was eventually reached.