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>The only unique identifier for an aircraft across its lifecycle from production to end of life is a combination of the manufacturer, make and serial number. >I

>The only unique identifier for an aircraft across its lifecycle from production to end of life is a combination of the manufacturer, make and serial number. >I know this because I am on (for better or worse) the patent that involves defining that as a unique identifier for aircraft. Isn't that blindingly obvious? If so, how did it get to be a patent? And is someone now extracting rent from it?

diggan 1y ago
Does it matter if something is obvious or not for getting a patent granted? From some casual looks of various US patents, it seems to be "First who writes a obtuse patent about thing X gets it granted", doesn't really matter if the thing is "novel" or not, just that no one tried to submit it before.
- ajb 1y ago
  Legally it's supposed to matter, yes. Non-novel or obvious ideas are according to the law not eligible to be patented. In practice the mechanism to decide both of these is broken.
  - diggan 1y ago
    I see, that's really not visible in practice. Silly example perhaps, but US5443036A comes to mind which just shows how broken the system is: > A method for inducing cats to exercise consists of directing a beam of invisible light produced by a hand-held laser apparatus onto the floor or wall or other opaque surface in the vicinity of the cat, then moving the laser so as to cause the bright pattern of light to move in an irregular way fascinating to cats, and to any other animal with a chase instinct. How on earth is anyone supposed to be able to take the patents system as a whole when there are 100s (if not 1000s) of examples like that, which obviously shouldn't be approved if "novel" or "non-obvious" ideas are required.
    - ajb 1y ago
      That one is kind of amazing - I wonder if it was intended as a self-parody of the patent system? But in general yes I agree.
    - hermitcrab 1y ago
      There is also a granted patent for throwing a stick for a dog: https://patents.google.com/patent/US6360693B1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US6360693B1/en The US patent system seems profoundly broken. Given that the patent system seems much less broken in other developed countries and the vast wealth and resources of the US, I assume it is broken on purpose?
      - lisper 1y ago
        I have a patent on a faster-than-light communications system: https://patents.google.com/patent/US7126691B2/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US7126691B2/en Obviously it doesn't actually work. I submitted the application as an experiment to see how hard it would be to sneak this past the patent office. The answer turns out to be: not hard at all. In fact, there's pretty much an algorithm for it: 1. Write up a half-assed patent application. 2. Submit it and wait for it to be rejected (which it almost certainly will be). 3. Read the rejection notice and tweak the application to address every individual point that was made. 4. Go to step 2. Repeat until the patent office capitulates and issues your patent. In my experience (my name is on six patents) has never been necessary to do more than one iteration. The reason this works is that the patent office is required by law to give specific reasons for rejecting a patent application. They are not allowed to simply say, "This is obviously stupid." If they see that you are going to persist, it's a lot easier for them to just give you the damn patent (it's no skin off their nose) than to keep doing your homework for you. With AI, following this procedure becomes borderline trivial. In fact, I'm a little surprised that the patent office isn't being overwhelmed by AI-generated patent applications. (Or maybe they are and it just hasn't made it into my news feed.)
        hermitcrab 1y ago
        Respect to you for exposing how ridiculous the whole system is. I hope you have a framed copy in your office. It reminds me slightly of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair I've done my own minor pranking as well: https://successfulsoftware.net/2007/08/16/the-software-awards-scam/ https://successfulsoftware.net/2007/08/16/the-software-award... My understanding is that quantum entanglement can't be used to transmit information. Given this fact and the fact that Einstein started out as a patent clerk, the great man must be turning in his grave!

diggan 1y ago

Does it matter if something is obvious or not for getting a patent granted? From some casual looks of various US patents, it seems to be "First who writes a obtuse patent about thing X gets it granted", doesn't really matter if the thing is "novel" or not, just that no one tried to submit it before.

ajb 1y ago
Legally it's supposed to matter, yes. Non-novel or obvious ideas are according to the law not eligible to be patented. In practice the mechanism to decide both of these is broken.
- diggan 1y ago
  I see, that's really not visible in practice. Silly example perhaps, but US5443036A comes to mind which just shows how broken the system is: > A method for inducing cats to exercise consists of directing a beam of invisible light produced by a hand-held laser apparatus onto the floor or wall or other opaque surface in the vicinity of the cat, then moving the laser so as to cause the bright pattern of light to move in an irregular way fascinating to cats, and to any other animal with a chase instinct. How on earth is anyone supposed to be able to take the patents system as a whole when there are 100s (if not 1000s) of examples like that, which obviously shouldn't be approved if "novel" or "non-obvious" ideas are required.
  - ajb 1y ago
    That one is kind of amazing - I wonder if it was intended as a self-parody of the patent system? But in general yes I agree.
  - hermitcrab 1y ago
    There is also a granted patent for throwing a stick for a dog: https://patents.google.com/patent/US6360693B1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US6360693B1/en The US patent system seems profoundly broken. Given that the patent system seems much less broken in other developed countries and the vast wealth and resources of the US, I assume it is broken on purpose?
    - lisper 1y ago
      I have a patent on a faster-than-light communications system: https://patents.google.com/patent/US7126691B2/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US7126691B2/en Obviously it doesn't actually work. I submitted the application as an experiment to see how hard it would be to sneak this past the patent office. The answer turns out to be: not hard at all. In fact, there's pretty much an algorithm for it: 1. Write up a half-assed patent application. 2. Submit it and wait for it to be rejected (which it almost certainly will be). 3. Read the rejection notice and tweak the application to address every individual point that was made. 4. Go to step 2. Repeat until the patent office capitulates and issues your patent. In my experience (my name is on six patents) has never been necessary to do more than one iteration. The reason this works is that the patent office is required by law to give specific reasons for rejecting a patent application. They are not allowed to simply say, "This is obviously stupid." If they see that you are going to persist, it's a lot easier for them to just give you the damn patent (it's no skin off their nose) than to keep doing your homework for you. With AI, following this procedure becomes borderline trivial. In fact, I'm a little surprised that the patent office isn't being overwhelmed by AI-generated patent applications. (Or maybe they are and it just hasn't made it into my news feed.)
      - hermitcrab 1y ago
        Respect to you for exposing how ridiculous the whole system is. I hope you have a framed copy in your office. It reminds me slightly of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair I've done my own minor pranking as well: https://successfulsoftware.net/2007/08/16/the-software-awards-scam/ https://successfulsoftware.net/2007/08/16/the-software-award... My understanding is that quantum entanglement can't be used to transmit information. Given this fact and the fact that Einstein started out as a patent clerk, the great man must be turning in his grave!