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THere’s a lot of single use plastics for packaging that something like this could replace. Like buying prepacked fruit. Your fruit isn’t lasting thousands of ye

THere’s a lot of single use plastics for packaging that something like this could replace. Like buying prepacked fruit. Your fruit isn’t lasting thousands of years. So your packaging doesn’t need to either.

fastball 1y ago
The plastic doesn't need to last for thousands of years for our actual use, but the properties that make it last for thousands of years are also what make it desirable for our use: fully waterproof, impermeability to microbes, etc.
- jibal 1y ago
  You're just repeating yourself, while ignoring that your sweeping generalization has already been refuted.
  - fastball 1y ago
    I don't think so. I was clarifying my point which seemed misunderstood by 2muchcoffeeman and didn't contain much of a sweeping generalization (more a statement of fact about the nature of plastic).
    - jibal 1y ago
      Wrong on both counts. "We like it because it lasts thousands of years." There are numerous other reasons for liking plastic ... in fact that's a very odd and unusual reason to like it. You say that the properties that we like about it are why it lasts thousands of years, but that's a very different statement. In fact, people have pointed out that we would prefer for it to have its likable properties but NOT last for thousands of years. So you've made a whole host of logic errors. You may not think so, but that's another consequence of the underlying problem here. I won't respond further.
- rTX5CMRXIfFG 1y ago
  Yeah but lasting a thousand years isn't necessary for those properties. It's not even the case that all those properties are necessary for all actual cases of their use.
  - fastball 1y ago
    Which material has all the useful properties of plastic and doesn't last for an inconvenient amount of time?
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - rTX5CMRXIfFG 1y ago
      There are many uses of plastic that can be easily replaced with cornstarch, bamboo, or leaves. Food packaging can be with aluminum or glass, granted those last thousands of years too but the point is they’re more easily recyclable and we can make a circular economy around them.
      - numpad0 1y ago
        Those don't work in Tokyo during summers. 40C/104F ambient temp, all-day 100% RH, optional salt in the wind, the every populated areas of the country is basically a bioreactor. We just haven't found such materials that can make distinction between just waiting at a crosswalk in Tokyo and being in a bacterial composting chamber. I mean, the simplest solution to this problem might be to leave that borderline uninhabitable hellhole and move to Europe where food in bamboo wraps or home-washed glass containers don't start stringing in matters of hours, but that's not an option for most. Also, you might be thinking that some of those wrap materials were historically viable, but it has to be noted that the content inside were much less healthier than it is now. Medieval Japanese people were estimated to have taken as much as 50g/day/person of salt, which is literally 10x WHO recommendations, or like 1.5 cups per week, or one small backpack worth per year. Adding that much of salt to food is no different from marinading it in chemical preservatives, only much worse.
    - 1y ago

fastball 1y ago

The plastic doesn't need to last for thousands of years for our actual use, but the properties that make it last for thousands of years are also what make it desirable for our use: fully waterproof, impermeability to microbes, etc.

jibal 1y ago
You're just repeating yourself, while ignoring that your sweeping generalization has already been refuted.
- fastball 1y ago
  I don't think so. I was clarifying my point which seemed misunderstood by 2muchcoffeeman and didn't contain much of a sweeping generalization (more a statement of fact about the nature of plastic).
  - jibal 1y ago
    Wrong on both counts. "We like it because it lasts thousands of years." There are numerous other reasons for liking plastic ... in fact that's a very odd and unusual reason to like it. You say that the properties that we like about it are why it lasts thousands of years, but that's a very different statement. In fact, people have pointed out that we would prefer for it to have its likable properties but NOT last for thousands of years. So you've made a whole host of logic errors. You may not think so, but that's another consequence of the underlying problem here. I won't respond further.
rTX5CMRXIfFG 1y ago
Yeah but lasting a thousand years isn't necessary for those properties. It's not even the case that all those properties are necessary for all actual cases of their use.
- fastball 1y ago
  Which material has all the useful properties of plastic and doesn't last for an inconvenient amount of time?
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - rTX5CMRXIfFG 1y ago
    There are many uses of plastic that can be easily replaced with cornstarch, bamboo, or leaves. Food packaging can be with aluminum or glass, granted those last thousands of years too but the point is they’re more easily recyclable and we can make a circular economy around them.
    - numpad0 1y ago
      Those don't work in Tokyo during summers. 40C/104F ambient temp, all-day 100% RH, optional salt in the wind, the every populated areas of the country is basically a bioreactor. We just haven't found such materials that can make distinction between just waiting at a crosswalk in Tokyo and being in a bacterial composting chamber. I mean, the simplest solution to this problem might be to leave that borderline uninhabitable hellhole and move to Europe where food in bamboo wraps or home-washed glass containers don't start stringing in matters of hours, but that's not an option for most. Also, you might be thinking that some of those wrap materials were historically viable, but it has to be noted that the content inside were much less healthier than it is now. Medieval Japanese people were estimated to have taken as much as 50g/day/person of salt, which is literally 10x WHO recommendations, or like 1.5 cups per week, or one small backpack worth per year. Adding that much of salt to food is no different from marinading it in chemical preservatives, only much worse.
  - 1y ago