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> Heh. You know what. I will let you figure it out on your own. I am ok with waiting. Please, enlighten me. Tell me of a place that went from functional democr

> Heh. You know what. I will let you figure it out on your own. I am ok with waiting. Please, enlighten me. Tell me of a place that went from functional democracy, then started policing hate speech and ended up a totalitarian state because of it. > Honestly, I have realized that no one is actually going to stop me from saying what I want to say. Uh, good for you I guess? But what do you even mean by that? That you are magically immune to censorship? Because you aren't. > You do realize this is not a great argument right? You are supposed to be held to a higher standard. Just because an idiot does idiot things does not give you a license to be an idiot. Literally why should I hold nazis to a higher standard? You seem oblivious to the very real danger of far right extremism. Being charitable to nazis is how they get into power, and how you actually lose your freedom. Those aren't just "idiots" or "assholes", they're very dangerous people, and have nothing good to contribute to society. Tolerating their behavior for too long is how you get masked ICE agents abducting American citizens in broad daylight. > It is because by undermining asshole speech, you undermine your own. This is simply not true. Look at how hate speech is implemented in European society. There are clear, legal boundaries. Simply being an asshole online does not get you censored. You have to go much, much further. That is the slippery slope fallacy. Policing neonazi activity today doesn't lead to censorship of all political opponents tomorrow. To the contrary, controlling nazi speech and other hateful ideologies helps guaranteeing the perennity of the freedom (of speech, and others) of the rest of the citizenship. If you reject this basic idea, I fear we have nothing more to exchange.

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
<< If you reject this basic idea, I fear we have nothing more to exchange. I am ok with that. << Tell me of a place that went from functional democracy, then started policing hate speech and ended up a totalitarian state because of it. I am assuming a fair bit about your mental model of the world, but, ehkm, the United States of America. << Those aren't just "idiots" or "assholes", they're very dangerous people, and have nothing good to contribute to society. Yes, freedom can be dangerous and scary. There are things I wish people did not do, but they do it anyway. As for the contributing, at best I can say that you are not being objective, reasonable or charitable with that statement. << Literally why should I hold nazis to a higher standard? Friend, you misunderstood. Not nazis, you. Hold you to a higher standard. We are expected to be better, because we know better ( or at least we should ). This is also why I am mildly amused, when the first cry I hear from people, when they see something online is to cry for more control of what they can see/say/do. It is beyond ridiculous. << Simply being an asshole online does not get you censored. You have to go much, much further. We absolutely disagree on that point. Your "much further" is already ridiculous. It is simply not factually accurate. Not in the EU. Not in Germany. Not in GB. << Because you aren't. Friend, we disagree. And that is ok. Know that I love you despite your deep character flaws. edit: minor edits for syntax/grammar
- thrance 1y ago
  Please stop it with your insufferable patronizing. This whole conversation is a waste of time. You keep ignoring the basic material fact that respecting fascists' free speech is a sure path to losing it for everyone, as is the case in the US, and in many places before it. You suggest nothing except "holding oneself to a higher standard" (whatever could that mean?). Can this help you face ICE agents when they abduct you in the streets and ship you to a foreign black site? > I am assuming a fair bit about your mental model of the world, but, ehkm, the United States of America. Ok, you're completely deluded. Do you seriously think hate speech policing was what led to Trump's government?? Fascists have been able to say whatever they want for ages now in this country.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
    << Do you seriously think hate speech policing was what led to Trump's government?? Interesting. I suppose I was not wrong with my assumptions. More to the point, what do you think led to Trump's government? << Fascists have been able to say whatever they want for ages now in this country. You have some sort of a point which broadly happens to coincide with one the previous one's I have made. But I won't offer a rebuttal before you answer the question in the first paragraph. << Can this help you face ICE agents when they abduct you in the streets and ship you to a foreign black site? You seem frazzled. My personal recommendation is to take a step back and reconsider your argument. I will offer a minor response here so you do not feel ignored. None of this should be a surprise to anyone, who has been paying attention. I will add that it does not escape me that current set of circumstances would not be quite so easily generated were it not for the oh so helpful hands of those, who cheerfully signed up for being able to silence dissent. Great job there. << You suggest nothing except "holding oneself to a higher standard" (whatever could that mean?) I hate to repeat myself for fear of people accusing me of being formulaic, but what do you think it means? << You keep ignoring the basic material fact that respecting fascists' free speech is a sure path to losing it for everyone, as is the case in the US, and in many places before it. Hmm? I deal with people as they are; warts and all. You seem to want to live in alternate reality pretending they ( and their opinions ) don't exist and have no bearing on you. I honestly do not think I am the one ignoring things. All I can say is, good luck. << Please stop it with your insufferable patronizing. What would you like me to do instead? << This whole conversation is a waste of time. I honestly disagree. I mean, maybe it was for you, but I did derive something useful from it.

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago

<< If you reject this basic idea, I fear we have nothing more to exchange. I am ok with that. << Tell me of a place that went from functional democracy, then started policing hate speech and ended up a totalitarian state because of it. I am assuming a fair bit about your mental model of the world, but, ehkm, the United States of America. << Those aren't just "idiots" or "assholes", they're very dangerous people, and have nothing good to contribute to society. Yes, freedom can be dangerous and scary. There are things I wish people did not do, but they do it anyway. As for the contributing, at best I can say that you are not being objective, reasonable or charitable with that statement. << Literally why should I hold nazis to a higher standard? Friend, you misunderstood. Not nazis, you. Hold you to a higher standard. We are expected to be better, because we know better ( or at least we should ). This is also why I am mildly amused, when the first cry I hear from people, when they see something online is to cry for more control of what they can see/say/do. It is beyond ridiculous. << Simply being an asshole online does not get you censored. You have to go much, much further. We absolutely disagree on that point. Your "much further" is already ridiculous. It is simply not factually accurate. Not in the EU. Not in Germany. Not in GB. << Because you aren't. Friend, we disagree. And that is ok. Know that I love you despite your deep character flaws. edit: minor edits for syntax/grammar

thrance 1y ago
Please stop it with your insufferable patronizing. This whole conversation is a waste of time. You keep ignoring the basic material fact that respecting fascists' free speech is a sure path to losing it for everyone, as is the case in the US, and in many places before it. You suggest nothing except "holding oneself to a higher standard" (whatever could that mean?). Can this help you face ICE agents when they abduct you in the streets and ship you to a foreign black site? > I am assuming a fair bit about your mental model of the world, but, ehkm, the United States of America. Ok, you're completely deluded. Do you seriously think hate speech policing was what led to Trump's government?? Fascists have been able to say whatever they want for ages now in this country.
- A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y ago
  << Do you seriously think hate speech policing was what led to Trump's government?? Interesting. I suppose I was not wrong with my assumptions. More to the point, what do you think led to Trump's government? << Fascists have been able to say whatever they want for ages now in this country. You have some sort of a point which broadly happens to coincide with one the previous one's I have made. But I won't offer a rebuttal before you answer the question in the first paragraph. << Can this help you face ICE agents when they abduct you in the streets and ship you to a foreign black site? You seem frazzled. My personal recommendation is to take a step back and reconsider your argument. I will offer a minor response here so you do not feel ignored. None of this should be a surprise to anyone, who has been paying attention. I will add that it does not escape me that current set of circumstances would not be quite so easily generated were it not for the oh so helpful hands of those, who cheerfully signed up for being able to silence dissent. Great job there. << You suggest nothing except "holding oneself to a higher standard" (whatever could that mean?) I hate to repeat myself for fear of people accusing me of being formulaic, but what do you think it means? << You keep ignoring the basic material fact that respecting fascists' free speech is a sure path to losing it for everyone, as is the case in the US, and in many places before it. Hmm? I deal with people as they are; warts and all. You seem to want to live in alternate reality pretending they ( and their opinions ) don't exist and have no bearing on you. I honestly do not think I am the one ignoring things. All I can say is, good luck. << Please stop it with your insufferable patronizing. What would you like me to do instead? << This whole conversation is a waste of time. I honestly disagree. I mean, maybe it was for you, but I did derive something useful from it.