5 ms·

It’s funny how we’ve all just become desensitized to the idea that some countries simply dump their garbage in the ocean and rather than work on that problem, w

It’s funny how we’ve all just become desensitized to the idea that some countries simply dump their garbage in the ocean and rather than work on that problem, we work on creating better garbage.

lisper 1y ago
Environmentally-sensitive garbage disposal is expensive. Not everyone can afford it.
- iszomer 1y ago
  IIRC, SK burns spent tires as a fuel source for their cement industry.
  - hippari2 1y ago
    It is easier to process a single type trash. Home trash is where burning get pretty expensive because people put all sort of stuffs in there. And I am sure the energy is net negative to. The main issue of trash has always been separation.
    - iszomer 1y ago
      Which also iirc Japan does very well. Sure, the power generated is connected to it's grid and it pales in comparison to their other forms of energy production but it is also a part of their waste management policy.
petermcneeley 1y ago
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/visualized-ocean-plastic-waste-pollution-by-country/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/visualized-ocean-plastic...
phyzix5761 1y ago
Its really hard to change people without using threats or force. Easier to change their environment.
- mmooss 1y ago
  > Its really hard to change people without using threats or force. People change all the time. We are much different than ~10 years ago, before the rise of the far-right in the West. We are much different than 100 years ago. People get much more exercise, eat healthier, are better educated ... so much as changed. Another new thing is people love to embrace nihilism rather than hope and progress - almost nobody embraces the latter these days.
  - jmknoll 1y ago
    What makes you think that people eat healthier and get more exercise? In the US at least, Obesity is on the rise, people eat more meat than ever before, and life expectancy is basically flat over the past decade.
    - mmooss 1y ago
      And they smoke a lot less. Of course it depends on your starting point, but compared to all of human history before 50 years ago, the trend is clear.
  - jibal 1y ago
    "People changing" and "changing people" are radically different things.
    - mmooss 1y ago
      Yes; many of those things influence people to change. The military also strongly influences people to change. In fact, any group you are in - work, school, friends, HN - changes you.
      - 1y ago
james_marks 1y ago
There are people working that angle as well[0], and they focus on prevention for this reason. We need all angles. [0] https://theoceancleanup.com/ https://theoceancleanup.com/
- junon 1y ago
  The Ocean Cleanup is probably the most impressive and inspiring humanitarian / climate endeavor around right now. Been following them for a long time, their PR is really good. Actually showing the places before and after, showing the trash they take out, explaining how the tech works, being transparent about the struggles and whatnot. Really, really well orchestrated, I always feel a spark of hope after I see something from them.
fooker 1y ago
> some countries simply dump their garbage in the ocean And most other countries dump their garbage in these less fortunate countries for 'recycling'. Can't really get mad at poor third world countries we have been using as dumpsters. If you don't believe me or think this is hyperbole, no I'm being literal here. Almost everything you sort out into a recycling bin gets dumped in the the ocean somewhere far from you. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/dec/31/waste-colonialism-countries-grapple-with-wests-unwanted-plastic https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/dec/31/waste-co... https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2023/03/rich-countries-nations-waste-plastic-exports-chemical-contamination/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2023/03/rich-countri... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-plastic-america-global-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-pla... https://www.dandc.eu/en/article/industrialised-countries-are-disposing-large-volumes-their-waste-poorer-countries https://www.dandc.eu/en/article/industrialised-countries-are...
- cantrevealname 1y ago
  > Almost everything you sort out into a recycling bin gets dumped in the ocean But the articles don't say that. They say that a lot of plastic is unsuitable for recycling and is therefore incinerated or dumped, like into a landfill or a big dirty pile of trash on the ground. Not one of the articles said that the plastic was being dumped into the ocean. One of the articles makes an observation about beaches and ocean around one Cambodian recycling town covered with plastic trash. Certainly a careless and dirty operation there. But even that article doesn't claim that their modus operandi is to dump it into the ocean. If those journalists had any evidence that ocean dumping was the goal, or even if they suspected it, then that would have been the highlight of the article and they would have said so explicitly. It would be a newsworthy scoop even.
- samlinnfer 1y ago
  It's not about recycling, their regular garbage goes into the ocean too (after they dump it into their rivers).
brookst 1y ago
It’s usually easier to solve a technical problem than a societal one.
petesergeant 1y ago
“some countries” is doing a lot of heavy work to say “basically the Philippines”, which is a gigantic outlier in output per capita and just also absolute volume. China and India produce quite a bit, but not compared to how many humans they have.
jibal 1y ago
This is about dealing with reality.

It’s funny how we’ve all just become desensitized to the idea that some countries simply dump their garbage in the ocean and rather than work on that problem, we work on creating better garbage.

lisper 1y ago

Environmentally-sensitive garbage disposal is expensive. Not everyone can afford it.

iszomer 1y ago
IIRC, SK burns spent tires as a fuel source for their cement industry.
- hippari2 1y ago
  It is easier to process a single type trash. Home trash is where burning get pretty expensive because people put all sort of stuffs in there. And I am sure the energy is net negative to. The main issue of trash has always been separation.
  - iszomer 1y ago
    Which also iirc Japan does very well. Sure, the power generated is connected to it's grid and it pales in comparison to their other forms of energy production but it is also a part of their waste management policy.

petermcneeley 1y ago

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/visualized-ocean-plastic-waste-pollution-by-country/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/visualized-ocean-plastic...

phyzix5761 1y ago

Its really hard to change people without using threats or force. Easier to change their environment.

mmooss 1y ago
> Its really hard to change people without using threats or force. People change all the time. We are much different than ~10 years ago, before the rise of the far-right in the West. We are much different than 100 years ago. People get much more exercise, eat healthier, are better educated ... so much as changed. Another new thing is people love to embrace nihilism rather than hope and progress - almost nobody embraces the latter these days.
- jmknoll 1y ago
  What makes you think that people eat healthier and get more exercise? In the US at least, Obesity is on the rise, people eat more meat than ever before, and life expectancy is basically flat over the past decade.
  - mmooss 1y ago
    And they smoke a lot less. Of course it depends on your starting point, but compared to all of human history before 50 years ago, the trend is clear.
- jibal 1y ago
  "People changing" and "changing people" are radically different things.
  - mmooss 1y ago
    Yes; many of those things influence people to change. The military also strongly influences people to change. In fact, any group you are in - work, school, friends, HN - changes you.
    - 1y ago

james_marks 1y ago

There are people working that angle as well[0], and they focus on prevention for this reason. We need all angles. [0] https://theoceancleanup.com/ https://theoceancleanup.com/

junon 1y ago
The Ocean Cleanup is probably the most impressive and inspiring humanitarian / climate endeavor around right now. Been following them for a long time, their PR is really good. Actually showing the places before and after, showing the trash they take out, explaining how the tech works, being transparent about the struggles and whatnot. Really, really well orchestrated, I always feel a spark of hope after I see something from them.

fooker 1y ago

> some countries simply dump their garbage in the ocean And most other countries dump their garbage in these less fortunate countries for 'recycling'. Can't really get mad at poor third world countries we have been using as dumpsters. If you don't believe me or think this is hyperbole, no I'm being literal here. Almost everything you sort out into a recycling bin gets dumped in the the ocean somewhere far from you. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/dec/31/waste-colonialism-countries-grapple-with-wests-unwanted-plastic https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/dec/31/waste-co... https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2023/03/rich-countries-nations-waste-plastic-exports-chemical-contamination/ https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2023/03/rich-countri... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-plastic-america-global-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-pla... https://www.dandc.eu/en/article/industrialised-countries-are-disposing-large-volumes-their-waste-poorer-countries https://www.dandc.eu/en/article/industrialised-countries-are...

cantrevealname 1y ago
> Almost everything you sort out into a recycling bin gets dumped in the ocean But the articles don't say that. They say that a lot of plastic is unsuitable for recycling and is therefore incinerated or dumped, like into a landfill or a big dirty pile of trash on the ground. Not one of the articles said that the plastic was being dumped into the ocean. One of the articles makes an observation about beaches and ocean around one Cambodian recycling town covered with plastic trash. Certainly a careless and dirty operation there. But even that article doesn't claim that their modus operandi is to dump it into the ocean. If those journalists had any evidence that ocean dumping was the goal, or even if they suspected it, then that would have been the highlight of the article and they would have said so explicitly. It would be a newsworthy scoop even.
samlinnfer 1y ago
It's not about recycling, their regular garbage goes into the ocean too (after they dump it into their rivers).

brookst 1y ago

It’s usually easier to solve a technical problem than a societal one.

petesergeant 1y ago

“some countries” is doing a lot of heavy work to say “basically the Philippines”, which is a gigantic outlier in output per capita and just also absolute volume. China and India produce quite a bit, but not compared to how many humans they have.

jibal 1y ago

This is about dealing with reality.