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What i like about US is that compare to other countries (like for example Russia where i'm originally from) there is almost no lying and cheating here. Instead

by trhway 1y ago

What i like about US is that compare to other countries (like for example Russia where i'm originally from) there is almost no lying and cheating here. Instead there is a respect of the law and an army of talented creative accountants and lawyers. Remember that stale "multi-used" sandwich served with the drink which by virtue of its existence converted drinking establishment into a food serving restaurant? Not being an accountant, i'd just speculate, out of sheer fantasy, that some hardware chip/gadget added to your software may similarly convert your software development into hardware/gadget one.

vlovich123 1y ago
I'm not sure I buy into this. Sure, compared with Russia it's probably a lot less, at least in terms of being something everyday people engage in. But in terms of comparing with countries like Germany or Sweden I don't know. Here's some food for thought: * Global financial crises: Banks were paying (bribing) ratings agencies to rate junk bonds AAA. * Savings & loan crisis: widespread fraud & insider abuse. * Bernie Madoff: Ran the largest Ponzi scheme ever, with an estimated fraud total of $65B raking in $17.5B in invested cash. * Enron: straight up accounting fraud sprinkled with intentionally causing brownouts in California to pad their pockets with a side bonus of making Gov Davis unpopular & get him recalled (Enron was closely aligned with the Bush administration). * Nixon straight up using psy-ops against Democrats & finally trying to burgal the DNC offices. In terms of stats, the FBI does a few hundred bribery and corruption cases annually. Are they good at catching white collar crime? Well such crimes regularly take more than 5 years to investigate. And hell, some things that are basically lying and cheating are straight up legal. Usury is legal with minimal to no regulation of payday loans. Pyramid schemes are legal as long as you call it multi-level marketing. The list goes on and on.
- bluGill 1y ago
  If the list doesn't go on and on that is a clear sign that corruption is being hid.
  - lucianbr 1y ago
    Could be a sign that the commenter was not willing to spend all his day writing, especially once his point was made.
    - vlovich123 1y ago
      I can’t tell if they’re trying to refute the point (ie the list being long means that it’s definitionally not being hid) or support (ie the list I made is finite and therefore the corruption is hid). But I think of it like trying to estimate the size of an iceberg by observing the tip. Just because you know a little bit doesn’t mean you actually know about the scale. And there’s every reason to believe it’s quite extensive given how easily money flows from corrupt countries through USD and US persons and companies (eg the major bank that’s constantly getting fined for laundering terrorist and drug cartel money - either they’re the only ones and they’re making a killing providing this service anyway or they’re the only ones anyone is bothering to investigate, but that business is clearly lucrative to continue to engage in).
      - bluGill 1y ago
        There is corruption everywhere. If there is a short list that means that the truth is being hid, or your have way too much police (often both). As you state, the size of the iceberg cannot be understood by what we can easially observe. While there is corruption in the US, it isn't really much worse than other places that are not known for corruption - though understand that the US has a lot higher population and so it might seem that way. (though often those other places are just hiding truth)
        vlovich123 1y ago
        The US also sees a huge amount of wealth directly or indirectly flowing through it. I would say that’s the attraction for illegal activities, less the amount of people. And I don’t know how small you think the list is, but I suspect it’s quite small because whether you get prosecuted from some corrupt act is pretty random since someone has to notice the corruption and try to investigate. Additionally the recent moves by SCOTUS is to significantly raise the bar for prosecuting corruption. So however you think America is fairing compared to other countries, I’d say America today is allowing once more, more institutionalized corruption than it had in the second half of the 20th century (and America’s history is filled with top-to-bottom corruption).
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
RankingMember 1y ago
> What i like about US is that compare to other countries (like for example Russia where i'm originally from) there is almost no lying and cheating here. Instead there is a respect of the law and an army of talented creative accountants and lawyers I thought you were being sarcastic here at first because, good lord, there is plenty of corruption here in the US (though those doing it used to care more about hiding it). The US, especially in its current state, is certainly not a place I'd describe with "almost no lying or cheating". I do understand that Russia is on another level, though, given the open assassinations and doing things like what was done to Navalny.
- selimthegrim 1y ago
  You forgot putting a dead guy on trial.
- MoonGhost 1y ago
  > I thought you were being sarcastic here at first because, You've never been in Russia. There is no clear law abiding business there. That opens a lot of opportunities for those with some power. Corruption is one of them, selective punishment is another. I'm sure in most 3d world situation is not better, but they at least don't have laws to cheat and bribing isn't a crime.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- mlrtime 1y ago
  You have no idea about corruption if you haven't lived it in a BRIC country. The funny thing, is that people not from America say that there IS corruption, but at least it happens in the open. I think OP is saying the same.
  - Braxton1980 1y ago
    >say that there IS corruption, but at least it happens in the open How is that corruption?
coliveira 1y ago
> almost no lying and cheating here Are you living in an alternate world?
- bjt 1y ago
  Or are cynical Americans living in an alternate world, blind to how much better the rule of law is here than most other countries? The commenter's comparison was to Russia. When was the last time Putin lost an election? I'd say we're slightly behind western Europe as far as rule of law goes, not really sure about the advanced east (Japan, Korea), and miles ahead of just about everywhere else (eastern Europe, Russia, Africa, China, etc). Yes, even with Trump in office, though he really makes me worry.
  - jmknoll 1y ago
    I mean, the sitting President was shilling cars on the White House lawn and runs an active meme coin bribery slush fund. This is not slightly behind Western Europe. This is miles behind any developed country. China may be corrupt, but Xi Jinping hasn’t yet sold beans or cars via press conference.
    - 9x39 1y ago
      The rule of law gets down to nitty-gritty levels, too, not just a reality show at the highest altitudes: trust the police don't extort you, the ability to gain relief in court (small claims or civil), trust things you build won't be looted overnight, trust in your neighborhood to walk at night or leave something unlocked, trust in your bank to wire things, trust in your title companies, trust in your package deliveries, etc. It's not perfect, but you could do so, so much worse.
      - rini17 1y ago
        "Could be much worse" is a platitude not an argument. "It is improving" might be, if it were true.
yencabulator 1y ago
USA is pretty darn corrupt. Just because worse places exist does not make USA good. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index#2024_scores https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index#2...

by trhway 1y ago

vlovich123 1y ago

I'm not sure I buy into this. Sure, compared with Russia it's probably a lot less, at least in terms of being something everyday people engage in. But in terms of comparing with countries like Germany or Sweden I don't know. Here's some food for thought: * Global financial crises: Banks were paying (bribing) ratings agencies to rate junk bonds AAA. * Savings & loan crisis: widespread fraud & insider abuse. * Bernie Madoff: Ran the largest Ponzi scheme ever, with an estimated fraud total of $65B raking in $17.5B in invested cash. * Enron: straight up accounting fraud sprinkled with intentionally causing brownouts in California to pad their pockets with a side bonus of making Gov Davis unpopular & get him recalled (Enron was closely aligned with the Bush administration). * Nixon straight up using psy-ops against Democrats & finally trying to burgal the DNC offices. In terms of stats, the FBI does a few hundred bribery and corruption cases annually. Are they good at catching white collar crime? Well such crimes regularly take more than 5 years to investigate. And hell, some things that are basically lying and cheating are straight up legal. Usury is legal with minimal to no regulation of payday loans. Pyramid schemes are legal as long as you call it multi-level marketing. The list goes on and on.

bluGill 1y ago
If the list doesn't go on and on that is a clear sign that corruption is being hid.
- lucianbr 1y ago
  Could be a sign that the commenter was not willing to spend all his day writing, especially once his point was made.
  - vlovich123 1y ago
    I can’t tell if they’re trying to refute the point (ie the list being long means that it’s definitionally not being hid) or support (ie the list I made is finite and therefore the corruption is hid). But I think of it like trying to estimate the size of an iceberg by observing the tip. Just because you know a little bit doesn’t mean you actually know about the scale. And there’s every reason to believe it’s quite extensive given how easily money flows from corrupt countries through USD and US persons and companies (eg the major bank that’s constantly getting fined for laundering terrorist and drug cartel money - either they’re the only ones and they’re making a killing providing this service anyway or they’re the only ones anyone is bothering to investigate, but that business is clearly lucrative to continue to engage in).
    - bluGill 1y ago
      There is corruption everywhere. If there is a short list that means that the truth is being hid, or your have way too much police (often both). As you state, the size of the iceberg cannot be understood by what we can easially observe. While there is corruption in the US, it isn't really much worse than other places that are not known for corruption - though understand that the US has a lot higher population and so it might seem that way. (though often those other places are just hiding truth)
      - vlovich123 1y ago
        The US also sees a huge amount of wealth directly or indirectly flowing through it. I would say that’s the attraction for illegal activities, less the amount of people. And I don’t know how small you think the list is, but I suspect it’s quite small because whether you get prosecuted from some corrupt act is pretty random since someone has to notice the corruption and try to investigate. Additionally the recent moves by SCOTUS is to significantly raise the bar for prosecuting corruption. So however you think America is fairing compared to other countries, I’d say America today is allowing once more, more institutionalized corruption than it had in the second half of the 20th century (and America’s history is filled with top-to-bottom corruption).
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

RankingMember 1y ago

> What i like about US is that compare to other countries (like for example Russia where i'm originally from) there is almost no lying and cheating here. Instead there is a respect of the law and an army of talented creative accountants and lawyers I thought you were being sarcastic here at first because, good lord, there is plenty of corruption here in the US (though those doing it used to care more about hiding it). The US, especially in its current state, is certainly not a place I'd describe with "almost no lying or cheating". I do understand that Russia is on another level, though, given the open assassinations and doing things like what was done to Navalny.

selimthegrim 1y ago
You forgot putting a dead guy on trial.
MoonGhost 1y ago
> I thought you were being sarcastic here at first because, You've never been in Russia. There is no clear law abiding business there. That opens a lot of opportunities for those with some power. Corruption is one of them, selective punishment is another. I'm sure in most 3d world situation is not better, but they at least don't have laws to cheat and bribing isn't a crime.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
mlrtime 1y ago
You have no idea about corruption if you haven't lived it in a BRIC country. The funny thing, is that people not from America say that there IS corruption, but at least it happens in the open. I think OP is saying the same.
- Braxton1980 1y ago
  >say that there IS corruption, but at least it happens in the open How is that corruption?

coliveira 1y ago

> almost no lying and cheating here Are you living in an alternate world?

bjt 1y ago
Or are cynical Americans living in an alternate world, blind to how much better the rule of law is here than most other countries? The commenter's comparison was to Russia. When was the last time Putin lost an election? I'd say we're slightly behind western Europe as far as rule of law goes, not really sure about the advanced east (Japan, Korea), and miles ahead of just about everywhere else (eastern Europe, Russia, Africa, China, etc). Yes, even with Trump in office, though he really makes me worry.
- jmknoll 1y ago
  I mean, the sitting President was shilling cars on the White House lawn and runs an active meme coin bribery slush fund. This is not slightly behind Western Europe. This is miles behind any developed country. China may be corrupt, but Xi Jinping hasn’t yet sold beans or cars via press conference.
  - 9x39 1y ago
    The rule of law gets down to nitty-gritty levels, too, not just a reality show at the highest altitudes: trust the police don't extort you, the ability to gain relief in court (small claims or civil), trust things you build won't be looted overnight, trust in your neighborhood to walk at night or leave something unlocked, trust in your bank to wire things, trust in your title companies, trust in your package deliveries, etc. It's not perfect, but you could do so, so much worse.
    - rini17 1y ago
      "Could be much worse" is a platitude not an argument. "It is improving" might be, if it were true.

yencabulator 1y ago

USA is pretty darn corrupt. Just because worse places exist does not make USA good. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index#2024_scores https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index#2...