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Here is the direct link to OpenAi's official response: https://openai.com/index/response-to-nyt-data-demands/ https://openai.com/index/response-to-nyt-data-dem

Here is the direct link to OpenAi's official response: https://openai.com/index/response-to-nyt-data-demands/ https://openai.com/index/response-to-nyt-data-demands/ That official response was discussed on this website yesterday. Here is a link to the discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44196850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44196850

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
“This does not impact ChatGPT Enterprise or ChatGPT Edu customers. This does not impact API customers who are using Zero Data Retention endpoints under our ZDR amendment.” The court order seems reasonable. OpenAI must retain everything is can, and has not promised not to, retain.
- throwaway314155 1y ago
  From bio: > Trade private equity > The court order seems reasonable. Checks out.
  - thegrim33 1y ago
    Could also just look at their submission history; all they do is post political content every single day of their life. Such a person is not going to have overly impartial/intelligent takes on issues. I wish there was a plugin that could do sentiment analysis and auto-filter out such users from submissions/comments shown to me. Or just a button I could manually click to never see a person's posts again.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    Fair enough, I’m by default deferential to our courts. In this case, however, there is a simple solution if OpenAI doesn’t want to save data: don’t retain it in the first place. If OpenAI committed to privacy as a value, their protests would have merit. But in this case it sounds like they want the ability to retain the data as well as delete it despite being in the midst of litigation. That’s simply not a privilege anyone is afforded by the courts. (We’re also talking about the Times versus a $100+ bn tech giant whose CEO has direct lines to heads of state. There is no David to default sympathy to.)
- senko 1y ago
  I cannot find it now because OpenAI blocks archive.org (oh the irony), but previously their API privacy policy said no data retention beyond 30 (or 90, I can't recall) day period for abuse/monitoring. I know because I was researching this for an (EU) customer. Now, the promise is still to not train on API inputs/outputs, but the retention promise is nowhere to be found, unless you're an Enterprise customer (ZDR). Moreover, at least in my understanding of the order, the court ordered them to keep ALL, not "all unless for those you promised not to keep": > OpenAI is NOW DIRECTED to preserve and segregate all output log data that would otherwise be deleted on a going forward basis until further order of the Court (in essence, the output log data that OpenAI has been destroying), whether such data might be deleted at a user’s request or because of “numerous privacy laws and regulations” that might require OpenAI to do so. So in effect, the statement you quoted is false, and OpenAI is actually in breach of their privacy policies. I asked ChatGPT to parse this in case I misunderstood it, and its interpretation was: > The company is ordered to preserve all output log data that would otherwise be deleted, going forward, regardless of the reason for deletion (user request, privacy law, default retention policy, etc.). > In other words: They must stop deleting any output log data, even if it would normally be deleted by default or at a user's request. > This is more than just keeping data they would normally retain — it's a preservation order for data they would otherwise destroy. As a result, OpenAI is now unusable for serious business use in Europe. Since the competition (Anthropic, Google) is not affected by this court order, the only loser here is OpenAI.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > in effect, the statement you quoted is false, and OpenAI is actually in breach of their privacy policies The statement is from OpenAI’s own press release. I still wouldn’t argue that their lies somehow make the court order unreasonable. > OpenAI is now unusable for serious business use in Europe This is entirely in OpenAI’s control. They could convert everyone in the EU to ZDR. They choose not to, and that’s their right. (As it is the right of the EU to deem that noncompliance.)

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

“This does not impact ChatGPT Enterprise or ChatGPT Edu customers. This does not impact API customers who are using Zero Data Retention endpoints under our ZDR amendment.” The court order seems reasonable. OpenAI must retain everything is can, and has not promised not to, retain.

throwaway314155 1y ago
From bio: > Trade private equity > The court order seems reasonable. Checks out.
- thegrim33 1y ago
  Could also just look at their submission history; all they do is post political content every single day of their life. Such a person is not going to have overly impartial/intelligent takes on issues. I wish there was a plugin that could do sentiment analysis and auto-filter out such users from submissions/comments shown to me. Or just a button I could manually click to never see a person's posts again.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  Fair enough, I’m by default deferential to our courts. In this case, however, there is a simple solution if OpenAI doesn’t want to save data: don’t retain it in the first place. If OpenAI committed to privacy as a value, their protests would have merit. But in this case it sounds like they want the ability to retain the data as well as delete it despite being in the midst of litigation. That’s simply not a privilege anyone is afforded by the courts. (We’re also talking about the Times versus a $100+ bn tech giant whose CEO has direct lines to heads of state. There is no David to default sympathy to.)
senko 1y ago
I cannot find it now because OpenAI blocks archive.org (oh the irony), but previously their API privacy policy said no data retention beyond 30 (or 90, I can't recall) day period for abuse/monitoring. I know because I was researching this for an (EU) customer. Now, the promise is still to not train on API inputs/outputs, but the retention promise is nowhere to be found, unless you're an Enterprise customer (ZDR). Moreover, at least in my understanding of the order, the court ordered them to keep ALL, not "all unless for those you promised not to keep": > OpenAI is NOW DIRECTED to preserve and segregate all output log data that would otherwise be deleted on a going forward basis until further order of the Court (in essence, the output log data that OpenAI has been destroying), whether such data might be deleted at a user’s request or because of “numerous privacy laws and regulations” that might require OpenAI to do so. So in effect, the statement you quoted is false, and OpenAI is actually in breach of their privacy policies. I asked ChatGPT to parse this in case I misunderstood it, and its interpretation was: > The company is ordered to preserve all output log data that would otherwise be deleted, going forward, regardless of the reason for deletion (user request, privacy law, default retention policy, etc.). > In other words: They must stop deleting any output log data, even if it would normally be deleted by default or at a user's request. > This is more than just keeping data they would normally retain — it's a preservation order for data they would otherwise destroy. As a result, OpenAI is now unusable for serious business use in Europe. Since the competition (Anthropic, Google) is not affected by this court order, the only loser here is OpenAI.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > in effect, the statement you quoted is false, and OpenAI is actually in breach of their privacy policies The statement is from OpenAI’s own press release. I still wouldn’t argue that their lies somehow make the court order unreasonable. > OpenAI is now unusable for serious business use in Europe This is entirely in OpenAI’s control. They could convert everyone in the EU to ZDR. They choose not to, and that’s their right. (As it is the right of the EU to deem that noncompliance.)