5 ms·

Sidenote: How is Mozilla's comm's so bad? I had no idea what their petition was talking about. Thank you for your service.

9283409232 1y ago
It's honestly impressive how bad Mozilla is at communication and its been like this for years.
- ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
  Effective communication is quite humbling. It's been my experience that I need to take full responsibility for the effectiveness of my communications. A few years ago, I threw together a PowerPoint show, based on Randall Munroe's Communication comic[0]. I did it for an organization I participate in, that is full of some of the worst communicators I've ever encountered. It astounds me, how people that get paid to communicate, don't understand the fundamentals. [0] https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1qQDAuhGvBvBlZVH2zn_VjLsW5IrYSOv3fWj9R5QEhWg https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1qQDAuhGvBvBlZVH2zn_V... (You need to view the slide notes, or it doesn't make any sense).
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - skybrian 1y ago
    Anyone know how to show the speaker notes on mobile? It seems like the xkcd comic itself is pretty hard to follow. It would probably be better with dialog.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
      I'm not sure. It was originally a PP show, and I dumped it into Google Slides, for a friend. Probably doesn't matter. My experience is that most folks have no intentions of doing what it prescribes, so it's kind of wasted effort.
    - yMEyUyNE1 1y ago
      Not what you asked for but should help https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1028:_Communication https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1028:_Communicati...
  - kennyadam 1y ago
    That PowerPoint made my irony meter explode!
  - bauble 1y ago
    Even with the notes, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would you illustrate communication problems with people who literally don't speak the same language?
    - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
      It’s almost impossible to understand, just from looking at the comic. Some of his comics are like that. I stared at it for quite a while, before it “clicked.” Once it did, the message was obvious. The PowerPoint was designed to be presented. It’s not particularly useful, just being read. It really needs a narrator that can explain the concepts. The idea is that it’s possible to communicate effectively, even when it seems impossible, as long as we are willing to take responsibility for the message, and figure out how to make it work. In order to do that, we need to understand the message, the recipient, the context, and the medium. It also shows how we can lose the message, when we get sidetracked by the messenger or the medium.
      - SoftTalker 1y ago
        If you read the notes on each slide that becomes pretty clear.
    - mmooss 1y ago
      > people who literally don't speak the same language? That's not my understanding of the XKCD comic, if that's what you mean. Also, I don't find the comic to be hard to understand. It takes a little work but it's pretty clear.
      - intended 1y ago
        It’s kinda funny, but this is also covered in the presentation. Something may seem clear to you, but it’s not clear to others.
        mmooss 1y ago
        Ha. Great point.
  - supriyo-biswas 1y ago
    It's a great presentation and deserves to be more widely disseminated, you should probably submit it to HN as a submission.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
      Thanks, but it would probably not be received too well. It has been my experience, that folks really don’t like its message.
      - growingkittens 1y ago
        I recently wrote this to someone who tends to give commands instead of advice, which is along the same lines: "You can lead a horse to water, and it may not drink. If you drag a horse to water, it will refuse to drink, then kick you, and run away."
        ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
        Stealing it...
mgraczyk 1y ago
The reason is that most people wouldn't care about the actual thing happening. Mozilla chooses to frame things in a way that is more likely to motivate people to action, even if that means being vague or dishonest. In this case their point #2 is dishonest because it already works that way. In the app there is a "Share" button at the top right. After clicking you see an interstitial with a big "Post" button at the bottom. When you click that button, the chat is shared.
- Lerc 1y ago
  The ends justify the means always backfires in communication. People just lose trust in what they are being told. There are so many examples of this. There was a poster that attempted to reduce needle reuse by showing the same needle degrading after multiple uses. The problem is that was not very dramatic (also not where the risk lies) so they increased the magnification at each stage to make the degredation seem worse than it was. People recognised this and the primary message amongst their target demographic was anti-drug campaigners lie to you. I'm not sure how much this will damage Mozilla. Perhaps not much because they have already lost so much mana. Before coming to the comments and reading this thread, I had already thought to myself, "Can I really trust what Mozilla says anymore?". Perhaps that makes it even worse. To have doubts that are so quickly confirmed suggests not only that you can't trust them, but you reliably can't trust them. I want to like and support Mozilla, I'm posting this from Firefox, that makes me one of the few sticking with them. They make it so hard sometimes.
  - intended 1y ago
    The fact that the crafting of the message and its match with the audience is poor, doesn’t mean that “Ends justify the means approaches always backfire”. You can make a whole media empire that just spends its time saying that “The other sides is lying” and taking on the role of pointing out every crack and flaw in a wall, lavishing hours upon hours of coverage. You can find just the right audience to support you, who themselves believe that the ends justify the means. Willing to rethink their lines in the sand for their team.
    - 1y ago
colechristensen 1y ago
The Mozilla organization is run poorly. I really wish it was different.
- echelon 1y ago
  The Mozilla organization has leadership that is complicit with Google. - Mozilla acts as an antitrust sponge for Google and in exchange gets lots of money - Mozilla is encouraged not to make Firefox better than Chrome. They thus under-invest in Mozilla, Rust, and core browser tech. - Mozilla spends all of its money on irrelevant efforts like VR, shitty platform plays, half-baked AI, and insane exec comp. It's a drop in the bucket for Google's peace of mind. If Mozilla wanted to be a next-gen serious company, they would become a developer tooling and platform company. They'd keep developing Firefox and Rust, they'd build up an ecosystem around Rust and WASM, and they'd be the best in the world at it. Deploy websites, micro services, and run CI with Mozilla. Rust is infectious and growing, WASM will eat the web and the data center, and Mozilla is completely sleeping on it. What's sad is how much of a hand they had in developing it all. They threw away the stuff that mattered.
  - colechristensen 1y ago
    >Mozilla is encouraged not to make Firefox better than Chrome. They thus under-invest in Mozilla, Rust, and core browser tech. Is there any evidence of this kind of corruption? It always seemed like misguided altruism to me, or at worst a serious lack of focus.
    - Seattle3503 1y ago
      I wish people had such faith in my own competence.
    - echelon 1y ago
      All it takes is one CEO. The ICs have nothing to do this.
    - ekianjo 1y ago
      > there any evidence of this kind of corruption Follow the money. Google gives so many millions to Mozilla, it would be a miracle if that had no effect on their priorities.

9283409232 1y ago

It's honestly impressive how bad Mozilla is at communication and its been like this for years.

ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
Effective communication is quite humbling. It's been my experience that I need to take full responsibility for the effectiveness of my communications. A few years ago, I threw together a PowerPoint show, based on Randall Munroe's Communication comic[0]. I did it for an organization I participate in, that is full of some of the worst communicators I've ever encountered. It astounds me, how people that get paid to communicate, don't understand the fundamentals. [0] https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1qQDAuhGvBvBlZVH2zn_VjLsW5IrYSOv3fWj9R5QEhWg https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1qQDAuhGvBvBlZVH2zn_V... (You need to view the slide notes, or it doesn't make any sense).
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- skybrian 1y ago
  Anyone know how to show the speaker notes on mobile? It seems like the xkcd comic itself is pretty hard to follow. It would probably be better with dialog.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
    I'm not sure. It was originally a PP show, and I dumped it into Google Slides, for a friend. Probably doesn't matter. My experience is that most folks have no intentions of doing what it prescribes, so it's kind of wasted effort.
  - yMEyUyNE1 1y ago
    Not what you asked for but should help https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1028:_Communication https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1028:_Communicati...
- kennyadam 1y ago
  That PowerPoint made my irony meter explode!
- bauble 1y ago
  Even with the notes, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would you illustrate communication problems with people who literally don't speak the same language?
  - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
    It’s almost impossible to understand, just from looking at the comic. Some of his comics are like that. I stared at it for quite a while, before it “clicked.” Once it did, the message was obvious. The PowerPoint was designed to be presented. It’s not particularly useful, just being read. It really needs a narrator that can explain the concepts. The idea is that it’s possible to communicate effectively, even when it seems impossible, as long as we are willing to take responsibility for the message, and figure out how to make it work. In order to do that, we need to understand the message, the recipient, the context, and the medium. It also shows how we can lose the message, when we get sidetracked by the messenger or the medium.
    - SoftTalker 1y ago
      If you read the notes on each slide that becomes pretty clear.
  - mmooss 1y ago
    > people who literally don't speak the same language? That's not my understanding of the XKCD comic, if that's what you mean. Also, I don't find the comic to be hard to understand. It takes a little work but it's pretty clear.
    - intended 1y ago
      It’s kinda funny, but this is also covered in the presentation. Something may seem clear to you, but it’s not clear to others.
      - mmooss 1y ago
        Ha. Great point.
- supriyo-biswas 1y ago
  It's a great presentation and deserves to be more widely disseminated, you should probably submit it to HN as a submission.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
    Thanks, but it would probably not be received too well. It has been my experience, that folks really don’t like its message.
    - growingkittens 1y ago
      I recently wrote this to someone who tends to give commands instead of advice, which is along the same lines: "You can lead a horse to water, and it may not drink. If you drag a horse to water, it will refuse to drink, then kick you, and run away."
      - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
        Stealing it...

mgraczyk 1y ago

The reason is that most people wouldn't care about the actual thing happening. Mozilla chooses to frame things in a way that is more likely to motivate people to action, even if that means being vague or dishonest. In this case their point #2 is dishonest because it already works that way. In the app there is a "Share" button at the top right. After clicking you see an interstitial with a big "Post" button at the bottom. When you click that button, the chat is shared.

Lerc 1y ago
The ends justify the means always backfires in communication. People just lose trust in what they are being told. There are so many examples of this. There was a poster that attempted to reduce needle reuse by showing the same needle degrading after multiple uses. The problem is that was not very dramatic (also not where the risk lies) so they increased the magnification at each stage to make the degredation seem worse than it was. People recognised this and the primary message amongst their target demographic was anti-drug campaigners lie to you. I'm not sure how much this will damage Mozilla. Perhaps not much because they have already lost so much mana. Before coming to the comments and reading this thread, I had already thought to myself, "Can I really trust what Mozilla says anymore?". Perhaps that makes it even worse. To have doubts that are so quickly confirmed suggests not only that you can't trust them, but you reliably can't trust them. I want to like and support Mozilla, I'm posting this from Firefox, that makes me one of the few sticking with them. They make it so hard sometimes.
- intended 1y ago
  The fact that the crafting of the message and its match with the audience is poor, doesn’t mean that “Ends justify the means approaches always backfire”. You can make a whole media empire that just spends its time saying that “The other sides is lying” and taking on the role of pointing out every crack and flaw in a wall, lavishing hours upon hours of coverage. You can find just the right audience to support you, who themselves believe that the ends justify the means. Willing to rethink their lines in the sand for their team.
  - 1y ago

colechristensen 1y ago

The Mozilla organization is run poorly. I really wish it was different.

echelon 1y ago
The Mozilla organization has leadership that is complicit with Google. - Mozilla acts as an antitrust sponge for Google and in exchange gets lots of money - Mozilla is encouraged not to make Firefox better than Chrome. They thus under-invest in Mozilla, Rust, and core browser tech. - Mozilla spends all of its money on irrelevant efforts like VR, shitty platform plays, half-baked AI, and insane exec comp. It's a drop in the bucket for Google's peace of mind. If Mozilla wanted to be a next-gen serious company, they would become a developer tooling and platform company. They'd keep developing Firefox and Rust, they'd build up an ecosystem around Rust and WASM, and they'd be the best in the world at it. Deploy websites, micro services, and run CI with Mozilla. Rust is infectious and growing, WASM will eat the web and the data center, and Mozilla is completely sleeping on it. What's sad is how much of a hand they had in developing it all. They threw away the stuff that mattered.
- colechristensen 1y ago
  >Mozilla is encouraged not to make Firefox better than Chrome. They thus under-invest in Mozilla, Rust, and core browser tech. Is there any evidence of this kind of corruption? It always seemed like misguided altruism to me, or at worst a serious lack of focus.
  - Seattle3503 1y ago
    I wish people had such faith in my own competence.
  - echelon 1y ago
    All it takes is one CEO. The ICs have nothing to do this.
  - ekianjo 1y ago
    > there any evidence of this kind of corruption Follow the money. Google gives so many millions to Mozilla, it would be a miracle if that had no effect on their priorities.