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I live in europe and have taken overnight trains to various destinations and they've all been nice - quiet, smooth, good food, decent nights sleep... I've also

I live in europe and have taken overnight trains to various destinations and they've all been nice - quiet, smooth, good food, decent nights sleep... I've also taken them in Egypt and Morocco and they were loud, jerky, and smelly... When I see pictures of trains in the USA they look very old and look like the locomotive is actually pulling the train vs providing electricity to each individual car's motors. This was the problem in Egypt and Morocco - the engine accelerate and all of the cars get jerked and when it slows down all of the cars get jerked again, making it hard to sleep.

PaulHoule 1y ago
Many American freight trains are diesel-electric where the locomotive supplies electricity but the motors are distributed. Notably train routes in Western Europe tend to be electrified and get all their energy from a catenary.
- closewith 1y ago
  99 % of Class I freight locomotives in North America are diesel-electrics where a diesel genset provides power to electric motors on the locomotive. There are - to a rounding error - no freight locomotives provide electrical power to motors on the rake.
mcfedr 1y ago
Quality of the rails makes a big difference, take the train from Ukraine to Poland and it's suddenly super smooth once you cross over into the EU
- jordanb 1y ago
  Track quality and maintenance by US mainlines are more Ukraine/Poland camp.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    In the places where the average commenter lamenting US rail lives the track are crap because there's no reason to have everything be "cruise at 80mph" level smooth when you can't get a train up to such speeds before the next curve and even if you could there's invariably other rail traffic or a grade crossing soon thereafter. In BFE Texas or Utah or whatever the rails are like glass because crossing 300mi of nothing in 4hr instead of 8 has enough positive impact on the rest of the system that they deem it worth paying for. It makes sense if you think about everything in terms of time between points.
    - bell-cot 1y ago
      Pretty much. It is obviously a for-profit freight system - In areas where the RR's top-dollar freight customers (especially domestic parcel delivery companies) want speed, they'll happily spend big to make that happen. And in areas where the RoI on speed (whether upgrades, or ongoing maintenance of existing track) ain't there, they can be happy with 25MPH maximums: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_speed_limits_in_the_United_States#Track_classes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_speed_limits_in_the_Unite...
    - close04 1y ago
      > In BFE Texas or Utah or whatever the rails are like glass because crossing 300mi of nothing Europe is densely populated, you'll rarely see 300mi of nothing. High speed rail is still common. Only realistically limited by cost, not by the difficulty to get the train up to speed before the next curve, or other rail traffic, or grade crossings.
    - hylaride 1y ago
      95%+ of North American intercity trains run on freight tracks, which are not designed to be as "smooth". On top of this, freight having priority means passenger schedules get messed up all the time. Freight trains carry heavy loads and have cars that are not inspected to have perfectly maintained wheels to the same level as trains that run on tracks for only passenger traffic, especially high speed rail (which runs on dedicated , highly engineered tracks). The big reason that passenger rail, even overnight, isn't as economical in north america is because rather than sleeping on a train, it's cheaper and more reliable to just fly in a few hours across the country. HSR makes sense in the dense US northeast or between Windsor and Quebec city in Canada (and probably California if it wasn't politically ruined with it's meandering lines), but sleeper trains for further distances would have to be dirt cheap to compete with flying. It'd essentially be for college kids or poorer people. Most people who do long distance trains in North America are doing it as a cruise-like vacation/adventure.
chiph 1y ago
There's not a lot of electrified track in the US. The distances are just too great and our railroads are freight-first, passengers second (the opposite of Europe). Even so, the passenger trains don't make abrupt starts/stops like the freight trains do, because people would complain. :)
- jordanb 1y ago
  Actually there used to be a lot more electrified track in the US but the freight railroads tore it out to reduce capital ratios and allow tall-stacking containers.
- novia 1y ago
  > our railroads are freight-first, passengers second (the opposite of Europe). Common misconception. Amtrak actually has preference on US rails, but the track operators frequently ignore the law. It's been the law since 1973. https://www.progressiverailroading.com/federal_legislation_regulation/news/Bill-would-let-Amtrak-fight-freight-railroads-in-court-over-late-passenger-trains--73076 https://www.progressiverailroading.com/federal_legislation_r...
  - chiph 1y ago
    It's the difference between "should be" and "reality". (I blame precision scheduled railroading for creating freight trains so long that they can't use sidings)
    - novia 1y ago
      I believe they did this specifically so they would not have to use the sidings
infecto 1y ago
As others have said. Freight is first in the US. I imagine Europe probably has more semis on the road transporting cargo. Except for special routes, passenger travel by rail is only for those dedicated individuals.
- philwelch 1y ago
  > I imagine Europe probably has more semis on the road transporting cargo. They absolutely do: unlike the US where more freight is transported by rail than truck, the opposite is true in Europe. And personally I think this is the right tradeoff. The efficiencies of rail over road vehicles scale up with mass. The US has 200 car freight trains hauling 400 shipping containers at a time; compared to 400 semi trucks that’s a massive improvement. European freight rail isn’t even capable of this level of scale; their railroads have maximum train lengths well below the US average. Freight is also much less fussy than passengers when it comes to scheduling, comfort, or speed, which is why this level of scale is possible for freight rail and not passenger rail.
tengwar2 1y ago
Even with a traditional diesel, you can get a good ride. I took the sleeper train from Istanbul to Pamukalle (Laodicea), and even over the single track sections it was smooth. It might be down to the driver planning ahead - this one was definitely proud of his work!
bjornorn 1y ago
European sleeper trains are usually also powered by locomotives, and the individual cars don't have motors, so I think the jerk motion you've experienced is caused my poor couplings or something else.
xattt 1y ago
You’re talking about EMU/DMUs versus locomotives. Higher-speed travel is less efficient with an MU than with a locomotive-pulled train. Higher-speed is important when North America is so large. See also: https://thebeaverton.com/2019/08/european-relatives-visiting-toronto-say-theyd-love-to-drive-and-see-the-rocky-mountains-while-theyre-here/ https://thebeaverton.com/2019/08/european-relatives-visiting...
- ginko 1y ago
  American passenger trains are significantly slower than in Europe.
ta1243 1y ago
I took a train from New York to Miami last October in a "roomette". Sleep was fine, better than I get on UK sleepers. Food was amazingly good.
- cguess 1y ago
  For those who don't know: The "roomette" is still your own room, with two beds that are couches during the day, and the porter converts them and makes your bed for you. Roomettes also have a toilet in them, so if you're with someone else they may be going to the dining car for a few minutes here and there. The car itself has a shower in it as well that shared by everyone on that car. It's really fun taking a shower at 80mph.
  - ta1243 1y ago
    I was on my own, so it was great. About 28 hours with various delays. Had the bed up top overnight, a few beers watching a couple of films on my laptop in the evening, nice dinner, great steak. Went to bed just after Washington, woke up somewhere around Georgia, nice breakfast, back to my "office" and a decent days work (no meetings as it was a Sunday, but I was sshed into many servers and didn't see any major issues with phone connectivity). Basically a moving hotel and office in one. There are more expensive rooms with private shower but that wasn't really value for money. I suspect the roomette would feel more cramped for two people, but it was better than spending 24 hours trying to relax and work in a new york hotel room.

PaulHoule 1y ago

Many American freight trains are diesel-electric where the locomotive supplies electricity but the motors are distributed. Notably train routes in Western Europe tend to be electrified and get all their energy from a catenary.

closewith 1y ago
99 % of Class I freight locomotives in North America are diesel-electrics where a diesel genset provides power to electric motors on the locomotive. There are - to a rounding error - no freight locomotives provide electrical power to motors on the rake.

mcfedr 1y ago

Quality of the rails makes a big difference, take the train from Ukraine to Poland and it's suddenly super smooth once you cross over into the EU

jordanb 1y ago
Track quality and maintenance by US mainlines are more Ukraine/Poland camp.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  In the places where the average commenter lamenting US rail lives the track are crap because there's no reason to have everything be "cruise at 80mph" level smooth when you can't get a train up to such speeds before the next curve and even if you could there's invariably other rail traffic or a grade crossing soon thereafter. In BFE Texas or Utah or whatever the rails are like glass because crossing 300mi of nothing in 4hr instead of 8 has enough positive impact on the rest of the system that they deem it worth paying for. It makes sense if you think about everything in terms of time between points.
  - bell-cot 1y ago
    Pretty much. It is obviously a for-profit freight system - In areas where the RR's top-dollar freight customers (especially domestic parcel delivery companies) want speed, they'll happily spend big to make that happen. And in areas where the RoI on speed (whether upgrades, or ongoing maintenance of existing track) ain't there, they can be happy with 25MPH maximums: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_speed_limits_in_the_United_States#Track_classes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_speed_limits_in_the_Unite...
  - close04 1y ago
    > In BFE Texas or Utah or whatever the rails are like glass because crossing 300mi of nothing Europe is densely populated, you'll rarely see 300mi of nothing. High speed rail is still common. Only realistically limited by cost, not by the difficulty to get the train up to speed before the next curve, or other rail traffic, or grade crossings.
  - hylaride 1y ago
    95%+ of North American intercity trains run on freight tracks, which are not designed to be as "smooth". On top of this, freight having priority means passenger schedules get messed up all the time. Freight trains carry heavy loads and have cars that are not inspected to have perfectly maintained wheels to the same level as trains that run on tracks for only passenger traffic, especially high speed rail (which runs on dedicated , highly engineered tracks). The big reason that passenger rail, even overnight, isn't as economical in north america is because rather than sleeping on a train, it's cheaper and more reliable to just fly in a few hours across the country. HSR makes sense in the dense US northeast or between Windsor and Quebec city in Canada (and probably California if it wasn't politically ruined with it's meandering lines), but sleeper trains for further distances would have to be dirt cheap to compete with flying. It'd essentially be for college kids or poorer people. Most people who do long distance trains in North America are doing it as a cruise-like vacation/adventure.

chiph 1y ago

There's not a lot of electrified track in the US. The distances are just too great and our railroads are freight-first, passengers second (the opposite of Europe). Even so, the passenger trains don't make abrupt starts/stops like the freight trains do, because people would complain. :)

jordanb 1y ago
Actually there used to be a lot more electrified track in the US but the freight railroads tore it out to reduce capital ratios and allow tall-stacking containers.
novia 1y ago
> our railroads are freight-first, passengers second (the opposite of Europe). Common misconception. Amtrak actually has preference on US rails, but the track operators frequently ignore the law. It's been the law since 1973. https://www.progressiverailroading.com/federal_legislation_regulation/news/Bill-would-let-Amtrak-fight-freight-railroads-in-court-over-late-passenger-trains--73076 https://www.progressiverailroading.com/federal_legislation_r...
- chiph 1y ago
  It's the difference between "should be" and "reality". (I blame precision scheduled railroading for creating freight trains so long that they can't use sidings)
  - novia 1y ago
    I believe they did this specifically so they would not have to use the sidings

infecto 1y ago

As others have said. Freight is first in the US. I imagine Europe probably has more semis on the road transporting cargo. Except for special routes, passenger travel by rail is only for those dedicated individuals.

philwelch 1y ago
> I imagine Europe probably has more semis on the road transporting cargo. They absolutely do: unlike the US where more freight is transported by rail than truck, the opposite is true in Europe. And personally I think this is the right tradeoff. The efficiencies of rail over road vehicles scale up with mass. The US has 200 car freight trains hauling 400 shipping containers at a time; compared to 400 semi trucks that’s a massive improvement. European freight rail isn’t even capable of this level of scale; their railroads have maximum train lengths well below the US average. Freight is also much less fussy than passengers when it comes to scheduling, comfort, or speed, which is why this level of scale is possible for freight rail and not passenger rail.

tengwar2 1y ago

Even with a traditional diesel, you can get a good ride. I took the sleeper train from Istanbul to Pamukalle (Laodicea), and even over the single track sections it was smooth. It might be down to the driver planning ahead - this one was definitely proud of his work!

bjornorn 1y ago

European sleeper trains are usually also powered by locomotives, and the individual cars don't have motors, so I think the jerk motion you've experienced is caused my poor couplings or something else.

xattt 1y ago

You’re talking about EMU/DMUs versus locomotives. Higher-speed travel is less efficient with an MU than with a locomotive-pulled train. Higher-speed is important when North America is so large. See also: https://thebeaverton.com/2019/08/european-relatives-visiting-toronto-say-theyd-love-to-drive-and-see-the-rocky-mountains-while-theyre-here/ https://thebeaverton.com/2019/08/european-relatives-visiting...

ginko 1y ago
American passenger trains are significantly slower than in Europe.

ta1243 1y ago

I took a train from New York to Miami last October in a "roomette". Sleep was fine, better than I get on UK sleepers. Food was amazingly good.

cguess 1y ago
For those who don't know: The "roomette" is still your own room, with two beds that are couches during the day, and the porter converts them and makes your bed for you. Roomettes also have a toilet in them, so if you're with someone else they may be going to the dining car for a few minutes here and there. The car itself has a shower in it as well that shared by everyone on that car. It's really fun taking a shower at 80mph.
- ta1243 1y ago
  I was on my own, so it was great. About 28 hours with various delays. Had the bed up top overnight, a few beers watching a couple of films on my laptop in the evening, nice dinner, great steak. Went to bed just after Washington, woke up somewhere around Georgia, nice breakfast, back to my "office" and a decent days work (no meetings as it was a Sunday, but I was sshed into many servers and didn't see any major issues with phone connectivity). Basically a moving hotel and office in one. There are more expensive rooms with private shower but that wasn't really value for money. I suspect the roomette would feel more cramped for two people, but it was better than spending 24 hours trying to relax and work in a new york hotel room.