6 ms·

“Getting the boot” is rather vague. Is there any more information anywhere, background, &c.? My general impression (quite possibly incorrect) was that X.Org Se

“Getting the boot” is rather vague. Is there any more information anywhere, background, &c.? My general impression (quite possibly incorrect) was that X.Org Server is largely treated as “done”, making only bugfixes and such these days.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
JimDabell 1y ago
From the readme: > That fork was necessary since toxic elements within Xorg projects, moles from certian big corp are boycotting any substantial work on Xorg, in order to destroy the project, to elimitate competition of their own products. (classic "embrace, extend, extinguish" tactics) > This is an independent project, not at all affiliated with BigTech or any of their subsidiaries or tax evasion tools, nor any political activists groups, state actors, etc. It's explicitly free of any "DEI" or similar discriminatory policies. Anybody who's treating others nicely is welcomed.
- hello_computer 1y ago
  > moles from certian big corp are boycotting any substantial work on Xorg, in order to destroy the project That's what I've always thought. The "X11 developers" pushing for Wayland weren't original developers so much as RedHat "maintainers," who (understandably) wanted a frontier to explore rather than janitorial work. All I know for certain is that X11 (even as of 15 years ago) mostly worked, while Wayland of 2025 is still full of headaches & breakages.
  - dralley 1y ago
    X did not "just work" for me 10 years ago, and neither is Wayland "still full of headaches and breakages" I've had no substantial problems because of Wayland in the last, like, 5 years.
    - blueflow 1y ago
      Nvidia, vmxgfx. I would run wayland if i could.
      - mariusor 1y ago
        > I would run wayland if i could. You can if you stop buying nvidia. The problem with missing drivers is principally the fault of the hardware vendor not of the kernel community.
        blueflow 1y ago
        You know what runs on these platforms? Xorg.
        mariusor 1y ago
        Perfectly true. What I was getting at is that you should direct your frustration to the correct place: not with the efforts of wayland and kernel devs but with the stubbornness of the hardware vendors that don't want to make their code public, and in the case of nvidia, (or) use the same driver building blocks that the kernel community recommended.
        e844dbe8fb 1y ago
        We normal people buy NVidia specifically because it DOES NOT support filthy Poettringware like Wayland.
        blueflow 1y ago
        Out of all the crap that Poettering caused, Wayland is not his work.
        antisol 1y ago
        What you seem to be missing is that a whole lot of people don't actually have any "frustration", except when people come along claiming that their new windowing system is "totally ready... except it doesn't support any good hardware". For people like us, X works just fine, with our nvidia cards, and we're not actually interested in the philosophical purity of who's fault it is that wayland doesn't work with our nvidia cards. If we cared about that kind of stuff so deeply, we wouldn't be using the proprietary drivers. IF you want people to switch to wayland, then solving all those edge cases, and making it work properly with proprietary graphics drivers (or maybe getting nvidia et al to open their code, good luck with that) is your problem.
  - msgodel 1y ago
    Most of the stuff that's come out of freedesktop.org always seemed to make things less usable. I'm glad to see people are finally giving up on it.
    - zzo38computer 1y ago
      > Most of the stuff that's come out of freedesktop.org always seemed to make things less usable. I thought so too. I also thought they have many problems and do not help very well. I mostly try to avoid them. (There are problems with X window system as well (and with Xlib), but still it seems the freedesktop had made things that are designed in a worse way.)
- jeroenhd 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - znpy 1y ago
    You missed the part "Anybody who's treating others nicely is welcomed." (conveniently).
    - larrled 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - blueflow 1y ago
        DEI is not the same as the people behind it. Criticizing DEI is not personal disrespect.
      - gfhopper 1y ago
        L take, DEI and the people pushing gender and race based preferential treatment can go take a long walk off a short dock. ETA: You don't deserve respect for the color of your skin or what's between your legs, you earn it tbrough your actions. Anyone who disagrees is an intellectually dishonest wannabe tyrant.
  - blueflow 1y ago
    I'm not going to pretend judging people by their skin color (or any other bogus criteria like those outlined by the hacker ethics) is not discriminatory. Whatever DEI was meant for, due to its unagreeable practices its unrecoverably burned into the ground.
    - jeroenhd 1y ago
      I, for one, am in favour of DEI pillars such as pregnancy leave and accessibility to the disabled. Especially the latter seems pretty important when it comes to developing a core component of a computer interface.
- metta2uall 1y ago
  Doesn't "DEI" basically mean treating others nicely?
  - tommica 1y ago
    Pretty sure it did, unfortunately it got swung to an extreme extent in some circles :(
    - krautsauce 1y ago
      [flagged]
  - msgodel 1y ago
    No and it never has. The default position on the internet, the one technologists working on open source always took, is that only the ideas matter and if your ideas are good you'll be included. DEI became popular because that wasn't good enough for certain groups of people who consistently failed to produce good ideas and wanted to wedge themselves in anyway.
    - toastercat 1y ago
      Any policy can be abused, including DEI. But as a whole, I think DEI has done enormous good.
    - MrArthegor 1y ago
      Yeah, from a non-US citizen views, this type of policy feel like target discrimination against certain groups of individuals. And the message sent is disastrous. Personally I am part of people who have big advantages with actual DEI policy, but I am firmly against that, because I want to be employed for my skills, not because I fit a quota or anything like that.
      - dragonwriter 1y ago
        > this type of policy feel like target discrimination against certain groups of individuals. Every policy is targeted discrimination for or against certain groups of individuals (and you can invert the group and make the same policy switch from "for" to "against".) The question is what group of individuals.
ZekeSulastin 1y ago
The project readme has some thoughts about why X.Org is treated as done and why the dev forked; I think I get why the OP didn’t link that instead. https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/tree/xlibre/master https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/tree/xlibre/master
moron4hire 1y ago
I don't understand why the link is to the commit list for a branch and not to the repo home page, unless OP was intentionally trying to have people avoid reading the README. The README contains a minor political rant that primarily complains about corporate influence but also takes a shot at DEI. The CoC page was intentionally left up with just the content "404". Reading between the lines, it sounds like toxicity all around.
krautsauce 1y ago
[flagged]
bitwize 1y ago
It's abandonware. None of the grown-ups in the Linux graphics space are interested in maintaining it beyond the minimum necessary. I suppose new features could be added to Xorg, but anyone who actually knows something about the graphics pipeline is 100% committed to Wayland, so it won't be done. And Enrico's code was apparently so shitty and disruptive he's earned himself a ban from Freedesktop.org. Or is that because he associated himself with Lunduke?

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

JimDabell 1y ago

From the readme: > That fork was necessary since toxic elements within Xorg projects, moles from certian big corp are boycotting any substantial work on Xorg, in order to destroy the project, to elimitate competition of their own products. (classic "embrace, extend, extinguish" tactics) > This is an independent project, not at all affiliated with BigTech or any of their subsidiaries or tax evasion tools, nor any political activists groups, state actors, etc. It's explicitly free of any "DEI" or similar discriminatory policies. Anybody who's treating others nicely is welcomed.

hello_computer 1y ago
> moles from certian big corp are boycotting any substantial work on Xorg, in order to destroy the project That's what I've always thought. The "X11 developers" pushing for Wayland weren't original developers so much as RedHat "maintainers," who (understandably) wanted a frontier to explore rather than janitorial work. All I know for certain is that X11 (even as of 15 years ago) mostly worked, while Wayland of 2025 is still full of headaches & breakages.
- dralley 1y ago
  X did not "just work" for me 10 years ago, and neither is Wayland "still full of headaches and breakages" I've had no substantial problems because of Wayland in the last, like, 5 years.
  - blueflow 1y ago
    Nvidia, vmxgfx. I would run wayland if i could.
    - mariusor 1y ago
      > I would run wayland if i could. You can if you stop buying nvidia. The problem with missing drivers is principally the fault of the hardware vendor not of the kernel community.
      - blueflow 1y ago
        You know what runs on these platforms? Xorg.
        mariusor 1y ago
        Perfectly true. What I was getting at is that you should direct your frustration to the correct place: not with the efforts of wayland and kernel devs but with the stubbornness of the hardware vendors that don't want to make their code public, and in the case of nvidia, (or) use the same driver building blocks that the kernel community recommended.
        e844dbe8fb 1y ago
        We normal people buy NVidia specifically because it DOES NOT support filthy Poettringware like Wayland.
        blueflow 1y ago
        Out of all the crap that Poettering caused, Wayland is not his work.
        antisol 1y ago
        What you seem to be missing is that a whole lot of people don't actually have any "frustration", except when people come along claiming that their new windowing system is "totally ready... except it doesn't support any good hardware". For people like us, X works just fine, with our nvidia cards, and we're not actually interested in the philosophical purity of who's fault it is that wayland doesn't work with our nvidia cards. If we cared about that kind of stuff so deeply, we wouldn't be using the proprietary drivers. IF you want people to switch to wayland, then solving all those edge cases, and making it work properly with proprietary graphics drivers (or maybe getting nvidia et al to open their code, good luck with that) is your problem.
- msgodel 1y ago
  Most of the stuff that's come out of freedesktop.org always seemed to make things less usable. I'm glad to see people are finally giving up on it.
  - zzo38computer 1y ago
    > Most of the stuff that's come out of freedesktop.org always seemed to make things less usable. I thought so too. I also thought they have many problems and do not help very well. I mostly try to avoid them. (There are problems with X window system as well (and with Xlib), but still it seems the freedesktop had made things that are designed in a worse way.)
jeroenhd 1y ago
[flagged]
- znpy 1y ago
  You missed the part "Anybody who's treating others nicely is welcomed." (conveniently).
  - larrled 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - blueflow 1y ago
      DEI is not the same as the people behind it. Criticizing DEI is not personal disrespect.
    - gfhopper 1y ago
      L take, DEI and the people pushing gender and race based preferential treatment can go take a long walk off a short dock. ETA: You don't deserve respect for the color of your skin or what's between your legs, you earn it tbrough your actions. Anyone who disagrees is an intellectually dishonest wannabe tyrant.
- blueflow 1y ago
  I'm not going to pretend judging people by their skin color (or any other bogus criteria like those outlined by the hacker ethics) is not discriminatory. Whatever DEI was meant for, due to its unagreeable practices its unrecoverably burned into the ground.
  - jeroenhd 1y ago
    I, for one, am in favour of DEI pillars such as pregnancy leave and accessibility to the disabled. Especially the latter seems pretty important when it comes to developing a core component of a computer interface.
metta2uall 1y ago
Doesn't "DEI" basically mean treating others nicely?
- tommica 1y ago
  Pretty sure it did, unfortunately it got swung to an extreme extent in some circles :(
  - krautsauce 1y ago
    [flagged]
- msgodel 1y ago
  No and it never has. The default position on the internet, the one technologists working on open source always took, is that only the ideas matter and if your ideas are good you'll be included. DEI became popular because that wasn't good enough for certain groups of people who consistently failed to produce good ideas and wanted to wedge themselves in anyway.
  - toastercat 1y ago
    Any policy can be abused, including DEI. But as a whole, I think DEI has done enormous good.
  - MrArthegor 1y ago
    Yeah, from a non-US citizen views, this type of policy feel like target discrimination against certain groups of individuals. And the message sent is disastrous. Personally I am part of people who have big advantages with actual DEI policy, but I am firmly against that, because I want to be employed for my skills, not because I fit a quota or anything like that.
    - dragonwriter 1y ago
      > this type of policy feel like target discrimination against certain groups of individuals. Every policy is targeted discrimination for or against certain groups of individuals (and you can invert the group and make the same policy switch from "for" to "against".) The question is what group of individuals.

ZekeSulastin 1y ago

The project readme has some thoughts about why X.Org is treated as done and why the dev forked; I think I get why the OP didn’t link that instead. https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/tree/xlibre/master https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/tree/xlibre/master

moron4hire 1y ago

I don't understand why the link is to the commit list for a branch and not to the repo home page, unless OP was intentionally trying to have people avoid reading the README. The README contains a minor political rant that primarily complains about corporate influence but also takes a shot at DEI. The CoC page was intentionally left up with just the content "404". Reading between the lines, it sounds like toxicity all around.

krautsauce 1y ago

[flagged]

bitwize 1y ago

It's abandonware. None of the grown-ups in the Linux graphics space are interested in maintaining it beyond the minimum necessary. I suppose new features could be added to Xorg, but anyone who actually knows something about the graphics pipeline is 100% committed to Wayland, so it won't be done. And Enrico's code was apparently so shitty and disruptive he's earned himself a ban from Freedesktop.org. Or is that because he associated himself with Lunduke?