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> try to honor our shared values and act accordingly What "shared values"? Most of the values people hold as "important" has people on the other side with the

• Bengalilol 1y ago
  Sharing is not agreeing. I can share values with someone I don't agree with. Switzerland has shared values for instance, it is a country build upon that principle. I bet every society has some. Humans too.
  • ptero 1y ago
    All people or most? If most, where is the threshold (0.1%, 1%, 10%?) for those whose values we can ignore and what should we do with those pesky people who do not share otherwise common values?
    • Bengalilol 1y ago
      Do you know Switzerland and its democratic system? I am referring to those shared values that are enshrined in the Swiss Federal Constitution: Freedom, Human dignity, Equality, Democracy, Multilingualism and cultural diversity, Federalism, Solidarity. (that is not an exhaustive list).
      • ptero 1y ago
        Those are great words. The problems start when we try turning those into actionable definitions. That is, defining what kind of freedom citizens have and when the government starts putting pressure on those who step outside those definitions.
• nelsnelson 1y ago
  Seems like a not difficult and quite worthwhile exercise to come up with at least one or two values that are so basic and fundamental that everyone could share them. Maybe that's what OP is talking about. Why be obtuse about shared values?
  • ptero 1y ago
    Because historically it has never been done. The closest we got is when a group (religious or political) finds something most people somewhat agree with, declares it a universal value and proceeds to suppress, drive away or eliminate those evil people who do not share it. It is much better to define acceptable boundaries on actions and let people believe what they want if their actions do not violate those agreed on boundaries.
    • Bengalilol 1y ago
      Switzerland is the oldest democracy in the world. Your comment certainly doesn't fit the way this country handles its citizens. There is the Law, the "what is tolerated" and what isn't. That's the "boundaries on actions". But any malicious mind won't bow down to those intentional principles.
      • ptero 1y ago
        What is a "malicious mind"? People absolutely heed laws that they find personally inconvenient but are afraid of the penalties (parking restrictions, paying taxes, loud music and that is not even stepping into hot button topics). The reason Swiss stayed democratic is likely not because they share universal, similarly understood values, but because they feel that their system that only defines acceptable norms is working okay as is.
      • fakeBeerDrinker 1y ago
        I don’t believe that Switzerland is the oldest democracy in the world, but I could be mistaken. Iceland has had a democratic-ish parliament since the 900s[0]. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Althing https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Althing
        • Bengalilol 1y ago
          You are right. And there is San Marino too. I had to write “the oldest direct democracy still alive”.
• reliabilityguy 1y ago
  > There are no "shared values" that all humans agreed upon. Murder is bad? Stealing is bad?
  • bdangubic 1y ago
    for me and you? sure! for all humans? nope
  • DaSHacka 1y ago
    Think most murderers or thiefs would agree about those?
  • diggan 1y ago
    > Murder is bad? Sure, lots of countries agree with this. But bunch of countries still have "death penalty", even one that is usually heralded as the "Savior of the West" still has judicial murders. Besides, if everyone agreed "murder is bad" we wouldn't have wars, so obviously not everyone agrees with that. > Stealing is bad? This I don't even agree with 100%, depends on the context. You're starving while someone else is hoarding food for themselves for no particular reason? Totally justifiable to steal food from them to survive. War argument kind of fits with this one too, clearly not everyone agrees stealing is bad.