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Two weeks ago the same website (heise.de) reported that the german military will use Google cloud services [1]. If there is any place where local cloud and ope

by dust42 1y ago

Two weeks ago the same website (heise.de) reported that the german military will use Google cloud services [1]. If there is any place where local cloud and open standards would make sense, then it seems to me the military would be it. I can't really imagine that the US would ever use another country's IT infrastructure to host sensitive information. [1] https://www.heise.de/en/news/Bundeswehr-relies-on-Google-Cloud-10397526.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/Bundeswehr-relies-on-Google-Clo...

qznc 1y ago
Well, the richest country on earth can afford that. Nearly everybody else cannot. China probably does. The EU could if they would manage to collaborate.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  EU countries are domestic competitors to each other economically and culturally, always have been for hundreds of years, hence the constant wars. They're only united politically in the EU when it comes to negotiating international issues. For example, an EU country won't hesitate to torpedo another country's energy, economy or industry plan if they can score political points at home for their voters or to protect their own domestic industry players from the other members. That's also one of the reasons why Switzerland and Norway refused to join the EU. EU is like a marriage between 27 people instead of 2, always at each other's throats but never(until 2020) divorcing. This is not the ideal environment that scales tech companies. That's why there no big tech from Europe.
  - qznc 1y ago
    Having a common enemy might help though.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      Did it help in 2014? Or in 1939? Or with the mass illegal migration issue? Countries are still very much "every man for himself".
constantcrying 1y ago
The Bundeswehr is a bureocracy with a small army attached. It is totally irrelevant where they host their stuff their main purpose is administrating themselves and for that it is irrelevant who hosts your "sensitive information".
joker99 1y ago
While I understand where you’re coming from, it’s important to mention that the German military buys googles software and hardware to self host an air gapped google cloud. I know that to some it’s a distinction without a difference, but if you want to have a modern(-ish) private cloud _now_, there’s not a lot of non-American competition out there, plus there’s the entire topic of support and consulting services. It would be great if Europe could get its head(s) out its behind and build a competitor (which is not easy, just look at how not great gcp is compared to aws) but they need a solution _now_. And having worked together with the German government on IT projects, I’ll say that the _only_ way an OSS project would be even considered is if there’s a company backing the project that has extreme amounts of passion, patience and passibility. In the end, they need some _entity_ that is _legally responsible_ - and it’s always better if that entity is not them ;)
- thyristan 1y ago
  They could have bought local for the simple part of the tender, and got the rest from Google for the complicated things no local vendor could offer. Or even split by criticality of the data. But they didn't even do that.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  > While I understand where you’re coming from, it’s important to mention that the German military buys googles software and hardware to self host an air gapped google cloud. The fact the Google cloud is private for the military doesn't matter. The core issue is that Germany, the richest EU country, is incapable of building its own cloud infra for its defense. It's a laughing stock to posture how the EU is getting rid of US tech when EU's biggest economy is entangling itself even deeper with the US big-tech. Andit's not just Germany. > but they need a solution _now_ AFAIR Europe has been saying "we need X now" for over 10 years, that I'm more than fatigued by it. Things don't magic themselves into existence out of thin air just because you need them _NOW_. You need to make smart investments and incentives into the private sector both for investors and the workforce, to get the results the US has. The problem is EU wants the nice things the US has built, but without putting the long term effort, similar how a guy wants to have the body of Thor but doesn't go to the gym and eats french-fries all day. > I’ll say that the _only_ way an OSS project would be even considered is if there’s a company backing the project that has extreme amounts of passion, patience and passibility. And why wasn't a German company like SAP or T-Systems able to do it?

by dust42 1y ago

qznc 1y ago

Well, the richest country on earth can afford that. Nearly everybody else cannot. China probably does. The EU could if they would manage to collaborate.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
EU countries are domestic competitors to each other economically and culturally, always have been for hundreds of years, hence the constant wars. They're only united politically in the EU when it comes to negotiating international issues. For example, an EU country won't hesitate to torpedo another country's energy, economy or industry plan if they can score political points at home for their voters or to protect their own domestic industry players from the other members. That's also one of the reasons why Switzerland and Norway refused to join the EU. EU is like a marriage between 27 people instead of 2, always at each other's throats but never(until 2020) divorcing. This is not the ideal environment that scales tech companies. That's why there no big tech from Europe.
- qznc 1y ago
  Having a common enemy might help though.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    Did it help in 2014? Or in 1939? Or with the mass illegal migration issue? Countries are still very much "every man for himself".

constantcrying 1y ago

The Bundeswehr is a bureocracy with a small army attached. It is totally irrelevant where they host their stuff their main purpose is administrating themselves and for that it is irrelevant who hosts your "sensitive information".

joker99 1y ago

While I understand where you’re coming from, it’s important to mention that the German military buys googles software and hardware to self host an air gapped google cloud. I know that to some it’s a distinction without a difference, but if you want to have a modern(-ish) private cloud _now_, there’s not a lot of non-American competition out there, plus there’s the entire topic of support and consulting services. It would be great if Europe could get its head(s) out its behind and build a competitor (which is not easy, just look at how not great gcp is compared to aws) but they need a solution _now_. And having worked together with the German government on IT projects, I’ll say that the _only_ way an OSS project would be even considered is if there’s a company backing the project that has extreme amounts of passion, patience and passibility. In the end, they need some _entity_ that is _legally responsible_ - and it’s always better if that entity is not them ;)

thyristan 1y ago
They could have bought local for the simple part of the tender, and got the rest from Google for the complicated things no local vendor could offer. Or even split by criticality of the data. But they didn't even do that.
FirmwareBurner 1y ago
> While I understand where you’re coming from, it’s important to mention that the German military buys googles software and hardware to self host an air gapped google cloud. The fact the Google cloud is private for the military doesn't matter. The core issue is that Germany, the richest EU country, is incapable of building its own cloud infra for its defense. It's a laughing stock to posture how the EU is getting rid of US tech when EU's biggest economy is entangling itself even deeper with the US big-tech. Andit's not just Germany. > but they need a solution _now_ AFAIR Europe has been saying "we need X now" for over 10 years, that I'm more than fatigued by it. Things don't magic themselves into existence out of thin air just because you need them _NOW_. You need to make smart investments and incentives into the private sector both for investors and the workforce, to get the results the US has. The problem is EU wants the nice things the US has built, but without putting the long term effort, similar how a guy wants to have the body of Thor but doesn't go to the gym and eats french-fries all day. > I’ll say that the _only_ way an OSS project would be even considered is if there’s a company backing the project that has extreme amounts of passion, patience and passibility. And why wasn't a German company like SAP or T-Systems able to do it?