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> Local media reports that the Defense Intelligence of Ukraine managed to exfiltrate over 4.4GB of data from Tupolev's servers, including official correspondenc

by mmooss 1y ago

> Local media reports that the Defense Intelligence of Ukraine managed to exfiltrate over 4.4GB of data from Tupolev's servers, including official correspondence, personal data of employees, engineer résumés, purchase records, residential addresses, and minutes from closed-door meetings. It doesn't look like high-value information such as blueprints, other technical or engineering info, or code.

toomuchtodo 1y ago
Workers are the most important part of an enterprise, and it appears they’ve acquired a target list. If you kill key workers or staff, you kill the org. Time to recover the capability to build bombers would then be potentially years, and likely beyond Putin’s lifespan.
- mmooss 1y ago
  That can help, but I don't know that Ukraine wants to carry out an assassination campaign against what look like civillian targets. The cost in support and morale could be much greater than the gain. I wonder if such targets are considered civillian or military under the laws of war. The factory is almost certainly a military target. Also, while blueprints or code won't help shut down the enterprise (which isn't functioning anyway), they could help with countermeasures.
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    I would argue that if you’re building bombers for a war mongering authoritarian regime that has caused immeasurable suffering and countless deaths needlessly empire building, you could be considered a legit military target. You’re just as culpable and relevant of a target as someone on a front line with firearm in hand, perhaps even more so due to the scale of harm you enable. To do so is a choice. Choices have consequences. I suppose final determination of legality is up to Might and The Hague. As I tell my children, “make good choices.” https://cepa.org/article/assassination-the-trouble-with-the-wrath-of-god/ https://cepa.org/article/assassination-the-trouble-with-the-... https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/17/world/europe/igor-kirillov-russian-general.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/17/world/europe/igor-kirillo... | https://archive.today/m0cn9 https://archive.today/m0cn9
    - mmooss 1y ago
      I know that argument, but it may not persuade enough people. And how about Russia killing Americans - or any people - that make software that Ukraine uses in the war? How about Ukraine killing Americans or others who make software for Russia? Lots of American make things for all sorts of brutal regimes. Are they acceptable targets? We can argue about it - I actually agree that people making bombers seem like acceptable targets to me - but that's mostly irrelevant. The question will be the effect on support and morale when the news shows someone's home burning and even other civilians dead, and whether the benefit is worth those costs. > building bombers I don't think they are building any bombers at this point; they lack the components. Maybe repairing and supporting them?

by mmooss 1y ago

toomuchtodo 1y ago

Workers are the most important part of an enterprise, and it appears they’ve acquired a target list. If you kill key workers or staff, you kill the org. Time to recover the capability to build bombers would then be potentially years, and likely beyond Putin’s lifespan.

mmooss 1y ago
That can help, but I don't know that Ukraine wants to carry out an assassination campaign against what look like civillian targets. The cost in support and morale could be much greater than the gain. I wonder if such targets are considered civillian or military under the laws of war. The factory is almost certainly a military target. Also, while blueprints or code won't help shut down the enterprise (which isn't functioning anyway), they could help with countermeasures.
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  I would argue that if you’re building bombers for a war mongering authoritarian regime that has caused immeasurable suffering and countless deaths needlessly empire building, you could be considered a legit military target. You’re just as culpable and relevant of a target as someone on a front line with firearm in hand, perhaps even more so due to the scale of harm you enable. To do so is a choice. Choices have consequences. I suppose final determination of legality is up to Might and The Hague. As I tell my children, “make good choices.” https://cepa.org/article/assassination-the-trouble-with-the-wrath-of-god/ https://cepa.org/article/assassination-the-trouble-with-the-... https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/17/world/europe/igor-kirillov-russian-general.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/17/world/europe/igor-kirillo... | https://archive.today/m0cn9 https://archive.today/m0cn9
  - mmooss 1y ago
    I know that argument, but it may not persuade enough people. And how about Russia killing Americans - or any people - that make software that Ukraine uses in the war? How about Ukraine killing Americans or others who make software for Russia? Lots of American make things for all sorts of brutal regimes. Are they acceptable targets? We can argue about it - I actually agree that people making bombers seem like acceptable targets to me - but that's mostly irrelevant. The question will be the effect on support and morale when the news shows someone's home burning and even other civilians dead, and whether the benefit is worth those costs. > building bombers I don't think they are building any bombers at this point; they lack the components. Maybe repairing and supporting them?