3 ms·

Not sure how they're fundamentally different. What do you mean?

bluefirebrand 1y ago
Think about the work of localizing a joke that relies on wordplay or similar sounding words to be funny. Or simply how words rhyme Try explaining why tough and rough rhyme but bough doesn't You know? Language has a ton of idiosyncrasies.
- Scarblac 1y ago
  ChatGPT is horrible at producing Dutch rhymes (for Sinterklaas poems) until you realize that the words it comes up with do rhyme when translated to English.
- Qworg 1y ago
  To make it more concrete - here's an example in Chinese: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Mud_Horse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Mud_Horse
  - mock-possum 1y ago
    > 2009, renowned artist Ai Weiwei published an image of himself nude with only a 'Caonima' hiding his genitals, with a caption "草泥马挡中央" (cǎonímǎ dǎng zhōngyāng; 'a Grass Mud Horse covering the center'. One interpretation of the caption is: "fuck your mother, Communist Party Central Committee"). Political observers speculated that the photo may have contributed to Ai's arrest in 2011 by angering Chinese Communist Party hardliners. How did I never hear about this detail??
- suddenlybananas 1y ago
  Right but I wouldn't call those things fundamentally different. That's just having different words; the categories of idiosyncrasies are still the same.
thesz 1y ago
As most languages allow expressions of algorithms, they are all Turing complete and, thus, are not fundamentally different. The complexity of expressions of some concepts is different, though. My favorite thing is a "square." I put that name to an enumeration that allows me to compare and contrast things with two different qualities expressed by two extremes. One such square is "One can (not) do (not do) something." Both "not"'s can be present and absent, just like a truth table. "One can do something", "one can not do something", "one can do not do something" and, finally, "one can not help but do something." Why should we use "help but" instead of "do not"? While this does not preclude one from enumerating possibilities thinking in English, it makes that enumeration harder than it can be in other languages. For example, in Russian the "square" is expressible directly. Also, "help but" is not shorter than "do not," it is longer. Useful idioms usually expressed in shorter forms, thus, apparently, "one can not help but do something" is considered by Englishmen as not useful.

Think about the work of localizing a joke that relies on wordplay or similar sounding words to be funny. Or simply how words rhyme Try explaining why tough and rough rhyme but bough doesn't You know? Language has a ton of idiosyncrasies.

Scarblac 1y ago
ChatGPT is horrible at producing Dutch rhymes (for Sinterklaas poems) until you realize that the words it comes up with do rhyme when translated to English.
Qworg 1y ago
To make it more concrete - here's an example in Chinese: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Mud_Horse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Mud_Horse
- mock-possum 1y ago
  > 2009, renowned artist Ai Weiwei published an image of himself nude with only a 'Caonima' hiding his genitals, with a caption "草泥马挡中央" (cǎonímǎ dǎng zhōngyāng; 'a Grass Mud Horse covering the center'. One interpretation of the caption is: "fuck your mother, Communist Party Central Committee"). Political observers speculated that the photo may have contributed to Ai's arrest in 2011 by angering Chinese Communist Party hardliners. How did I never hear about this detail??
suddenlybananas 1y ago
Right but I wouldn't call those things fundamentally different. That's just having different words; the categories of idiosyncrasies are still the same.

thesz 1y ago

As most languages allow expressions of algorithms, they are all Turing complete and, thus, are not fundamentally different. The complexity of expressions of some concepts is different, though. My favorite thing is a "square." I put that name to an enumeration that allows me to compare and contrast things with two different qualities expressed by two extremes. One such square is "One can (not) do (not do) something." Both "not"'s can be present and absent, just like a truth table. "One can do something", "one can not do something", "one can do not do something" and, finally, "one can not help but do something." Why should we use "help but" instead of "do not"? While this does not preclude one from enumerating possibilities thinking in English, it makes that enumeration harder than it can be in other languages. For example, in Russian the "square" is expressible directly. Also, "help but" is not shorter than "do not," it is longer. Useful idioms usually expressed in shorter forms, thus, apparently, "one can not help but do something" is considered by Englishmen as not useful.