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Man kicked off flight by pilot for wearing anti-TSA shirt
- ghshephard 14y agoWhile, I understand on principle why he thinks he should be allowed to fly wearing any political statement he wishes - it's the kind of principle I had when I was less than 30. Nowadays, I completely understand and appreciate why passengers don't want to fly on a plane with someone who was wearing a shirt that had the phrases, "Moisture BOMBS", "Terrorists gonna kill us all", "Alert Level Blood Red." At a certain point, you really don't want, "that guy" flying on your plane, and I'm happy the pilot made the call he did. In the future - perhaps different attire might be considered before boarding a plane.
- Bud 14y agoI feel uncomfortable boarding planes with guys wearing NASCAR hats, subtly racist tattoos, etc. Can I get those passengers kicked off, too? Or is it only non-white liberals who get booted?
- powertower 14y agoWhat do NASCAR hats and racist tattoos have to do with this? This person knowing full well about the hysteria around terrorism, bombs, and air flights went out of his way to cause an incident, and is now complaining about "white racists", unfair treatment, and the airlines. All he had to do was show up dressed in a normal tee-shirt. But this wasn't good enough for him. He had to make a statement. In a cramped space of an airplane, of all the places. And it turns out the other people didn't get his joke.
- Bud 14y agoThey have a lot to do with it, actually. My point is that if some speech, communicated by wearing a T-shirt and nothing else, is actionable, then perhaps other forms of speech should be actionable, too. This person did not "go out of his way" to cause an incident. He wore a T-shirt and that is all he did. "Making a statement" is ok. This is America. We supposedly protect that right, even when we do not agree with the statement in question. "Hysteria" resulting from events that happened 11 years ago and which will never occur again is not an excuse for abandoning that principle.
- DanBC 14y agoYou do not stand in a theatre and shout "fire!" unless there is a fire. You do not use the "bomb" word in an airport, unless you suspect something is a bomb. How many people need to be pulled off flights for people to understand that sometimes you just don't need to wear the t-shirt (that looks creepily white power) covered in BOMB DEATH KILL.
- glenra 14y ago> You do not stand in a theatre and shout "fire!" unless there is a fire. Do you realize that that particular constructed example comes from an argument that protesting the draft should be illegal? (Incidentally, Penn Jillette quite regularly stands in his theater and shouts "fire!" when there is no threat. Most people aren't idiots most of the time, so it's not a problem.) > How many people need to be pulled off flights for people to understand that sometimes you just don't need to wear the t-shirt (that looks creepily white power) covered in BOMB DEATH KILL. Maybe it needs to keep happening until our airport cops realize they're being idiots and return to dealing with actual security threats. Assuming they can find any.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- ghshephard 14y agoFeel free to make statements where they are appropriate, and I'll defend your right to do so. Feel free to write material on your blog, to write books, to make speeches in public areas. Airplanes are not the places to be making statements. Actually, most public travel is probably an inappropriate place to be making statements. If you feel the need to make statements about Bombs, terrorists, and Blood while attempting to board an airplane, don't be surprised if others feel the need to spend a bit more time talking about you based on your behavior. And yes - there are many, many forms of speech that are actionable when crossing borders, boarding planes, entering federal buildings - one of the key jobs of a security person is to evaluate you based on things like delaying in answering simple questions, being evasive, appearing nervous, and yes - talking about bombs and terrorists killing all of us.
- grecy 14y ago> In the future - perhaps different attire might be considered before boarding a plane. In the not too distant future: Don't wear attire supporting political party X if you plan to leave your house.
- awj 14y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope#As_a_fallacy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope#As_a_fallacy
- mikeash 14y agoI don't think it's a fallacy when you extrapolate the slippery slope from watching the political establishment slide down said slope continuously for the past decade.
- mikeash 14y agoThe irony is that terrorists will try to remain innocuous and a guy like this is less likely to be dangerous than average.
- benhoyt 14y agoVery much agreed. I remember once going through airport security (in New Zealand) and the guy said, "Could you please take off your jacket." So I did, then remembered I'd put on my "DANGER, EXPLOSIVE" T-shirt that morning. I looked down and said, "Oops, that was kind of a silly T-shirt to wear, wasn't it?" "Sure was," he said, "Now zip up your jacket and get on the plane!"
- cecilpl 14y agoWhen I was 20 I had a pen in my pocket and it leaked all over my pants on a flight. On the way back home, I was going through airport security and had another pen in my pocked. I picked it up from the tray, turned to my friend behind me, and without thinking said in a fairly loud voice, "I wonder if this one will explode on the plane". Dead silence as every eye in the room turns to this young kid holding up a pen. I just stammered out an apology as my face went bright red and I shoved it back in my pocket. I can't actually believe they let me on the plane.
- Bud 14y agoI don't see why pilots need to have the power to boot passengers. At all. That's why TSA supposedly exists. Racist objections from passengers should not be able to lead to other passengers getting booted from flights.
- anigbrowl 14y agoRacism is one possibility, but so is anxiety about the guy's shirt and his attitude. Not very rational, but a cramped airline fuselage isn't the ideal place for your political protest. A snotty disregard for the concerns of others tends to make them unsympathetic to your point of view. As for why pilots have the power to boot people, it's because they're responsible for the safety and happiness of the passengers during the flight, and the airline is there to make money on slim margins, not to serve as a public utility. Unless an airline engages in systematic discrimination against a protected class of people, then pilots will generally be allowed to appease the majority of paying passengers.
- grecy 14y ago> a cramped airline fuselage isn't the ideal place for your political protest. Free Speech (but only when we say so)
- tonycoco 14y agoIsn't it a privilege to fly? Not a right. It's not like an airplane is some public government arena. It's the property of the airlines, just so happens that you have to be cleared by the government to fly. Don't they have the right to refuse service to a customer, especially if that customer is making employees and other customers uneasy. I'm sure if you went into a McDonald's and were wearing some suspicious clothing or start spouting off ridiculous speeches, they'd ask you kindly to leave and tell you that you were not a welcome customer any longer. In fact, I've seen it happen. There are places for expression and "Free Speech"... maybe sitting next to the 13 year old or grandmother (or any other paying customer) who's flying for the first time in his/her life wearing some silly t-shirt about bombs and anti-government banter isn't the right place for it.
- downwithmycrew 14y agoJust wear a plain tee.
- swdunlop 14y agoOr fly naked. http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-18/travel/travel_oregon-airport-naked-protest_1_airport-screeners-tsa-oregon-airport?_s=PM:TRAVEL http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-18/travel/travel_oregon-airp...
- dstroot 14y agoNever, ever, interfere or make light of their mission to prevent water from flying! Never mind the fact that I am drinking my "bomb juice" to slake my thirst. Or take off my belt, shoes, jacket and remove my laptop (but not my iPad) to have them "screened" by experts. I think Arijit just made the no-fly list. :)
- rm999 14y agoHis point isn't particularly controversial, air security has gone too far. But he was looking for trouble by wearing that shirt, in his words mocking the "over-reactions to terrorism by the general public". He comes off as an angry person who doesn't sympathize with the genuine (and obvious) fears people may have. Ultimately he weakens his own point by acting so ridiculous; he gave the TSA and Delta a reason to mess with him.
- grecy 14y ago> he gave the TSA a reason to mess with him. So much for free speech.
- benhoyt 14y agoThere's a time and a place for everything, including speaking freely. As another example, the time to be vocal about your disagreement with someone's policies is not by picketing their funeral.
- mikeash 14y agoWhenever I'm subjected to TSA, I'm an angry person and I don't sympathize at all with the fears people may have. Genuine though they may be, they are ridiculous. You are safer flying on an airliner than you are sitting in your living room, and that's not the TSA's doing. I shouldn't have to respect people's ridiculous and baseless fears in order to exercise my right to travel.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- ww520 14y agoThe terrorists have won. Americans have lost their way of life.
- dhimes 14y agoThis has nothing to do with that. It's like wearing a t-shirt saying "rape is underrated" to a home for battered women. It's thoughtless and selfish and not funny. And for reasons I stated elsewhere, the pilot made the right call, especially from a business perspective.
- readymade 14y agoA shirt mocking the TSA doesn't come close to that analogy, even if you consider it bad taste, since it doesn't legitimize, condone or make light of terrorism. If it said "Terrorism rules!", then perhaps you'd have a point, although it's still a stupid reason to put him through what they did, especially considering his ordeal did not end with agreeing to change his clothes.
- dhimes 14y agoYou have a point about the analogy I struck- it's not the one I intended. My analogy was intended as the thoughtless act of wearing the shirt, not the relationship of what the shirt condoned. Once the other passengers are upset, it's the pilot's call. Same will happen on a boat or a bus. If you upset the other passengers you get to find some other means of getting where you are going. The pilot made the right call. It sounds like he was only kicked off of one flight. That's fair.
- dhimes 14y agoWhat an immature little creep. There are plenty of people who are nervous about flying but who have to do so anyway due to family or business or what-have-you. So he shows up in this shirt-- why?? What's really the point? To get in the TSA workers' faces? To look like a tough guy to the scared grandma, who needed one less thing to worry about on the flight? Fuck off. Kudos to the pilot who made a decision based on the comfort of the passengers. Let him walk. It's the same decision pilots make when they dodge a little turbulence. Safety? Not at all. Comfort of the passengers. Easing their mind. Pure and simple.
- highace 14y agoExactly. The moral of this story is clearly not to wear t-shirts joking about bombs, terrorists, or killing, when you know you're going to be boarding a plane.
- Bud 14y agoI think you're ranting, and did not actually read the article. This guy clearly did not have the objective of "getting in the TSA workers' faces"; the article clearly states that he had already cleared the TSA checkpoint without incident, and was then challenged by a Delta supervisor. It sounds to me, based on all the facts we have available, that someone got in this guy's face. Not the other way around. So basically, you are making up your entire argument.
- dhimes 14y agoNope. You are reading his story without thinking. I don't buy his story. He's a punk who was getting off on the whole idea of what he was doing. There are three possibilities in this case: (1) he woke up, possibly hung over, and dressed without thinking; (2) he deliberated picked his shirt knowing he would be dealing with TSA agents, etc. (in your face!) and possibly knowing that he would make some folks nervous and not giving a shit; or (3) he made the choice in #2 but with the aim to antagonize-- in essence, psychologically bullying those around him (Oh, I'm not scared, are you?). I figure that if it was #1 the blog post would have bee a whole lot different. The best I can allow him is that it was a move of immaturity. I am not applauding, regardless of my stance on the TSA and their practices.
- awj 14y agoI'd imagine the reality here is like many other times someone got "uppity" or "snarky" with people dealing in public safety: his version of expressing contempt for the situation was interpreted as belligerence and a lack of willingness to cooperate in the establishment of security. I get what he was trying to do. I even agree with his opinions on the situation. But if that shirt represents the attitude he held in the whole encounter, it's no surprise things went to shit.
- guelo 14y agoRight, just like those uppity negroes deserved to be put in their place back in the day.
- awj 14y agoWe really need another version of Godwin's Law, but for slavery instead of Nazis.
- saraid216 14y ago> But if that shirt represents the attitude he held in the whole encounter, it's no surprise things went to shit. It's not surprising, but it's also not right. Cops who don't know how to deal with an antagonistic attitude aren't really useful anywhere that deals directly with the public.
- awj 14y agoI agree, they aren't. But here we're talking about TSA agents (who more or less acted appropriately, in my opinion) and Delta employees. I expect neither of these to perform well when balancing public safety against antagonistic attitudes. Especially the Delta employees.
- saraid216 14y agoThat's what training is for. If it's ineffective, then it needs to be more effective. If the employee hasn't received it, then they shouldn't be handling customers. Same with the NFTA officers.
- mbesto 14y agoCan we seriously stop with this stuff on HN...
- tylermauthe 14y agoTend to agree... I go to reddit to waste time reading about this sort of thing...
- bithive123 14y agoLast time I went through airport security the TSA agent kept pestering me to empty my pockets, after I found a dollar bill in one. When I produced a kleenex (tissue), he got all indignant "You can have nothing in your pockets, sir! That's not nothing, it's something!" so I placed it in a plastic bin and told him "here, you can scan that." I was really annoyed but I knew they stopped exercising any judgement at all when they made it illegal to bring a bottle of water through security, even if everyone is 100% certain that it contains only water. Unfortunately the airport is not the place for this kind of activism. This should be as self-evident as the TSA's idiocy.
- otneusnocuh 14y ago"Unfortunately the airport is not the place for this kind of activism." Then where is? Facebook?
- cwisecarver 14y agoThe morale of the story is don't fly Delta. They're a business and they have every right to throw someone off the plane to enhance passenger comfort. He made it through the TSA checks so we can't blame them. The only way to explain to Delta that you don't want your freedom of expression or speech violated is to not fly on their planes. Let all the passengers that want to overreact to a t-shirt, something completely benign, fly Delta and everyone else can fly one of the other carriers. Everyone's freedom stays intact.
- criveros 14y agoThis is not hacker news.
- jack-r-abbit 14y agoHmmm.... it just occurred to me... what do you think would happen if they threw the man off because he was wearing a clown outfit? That seems pretty ridiculous to me. But let's consider the number of people that have a genuine fear of clowns. Is it still ridiculous? I still think so. But if this was all about making sure that all of the passengers felt comfortable, then it would seem perfectly acceptable to toss a man for dressing like a clown. But that does not seem acceptable at all. Just like when Billie Joe Armstrong got tossed because his pants were saggy[1]. And he's a god damn rock star! [1]http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/billie-joe-armstrong-kicked-off-southwest-flight-saggy/story?id=14445274#.UDVyE1SEC3o http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/billie-joe-armstrong-kic...
- r00fus 14y agoI wonder if he would have gotten on the plane by just wearing a "TSA can go grope themselves" shirt without the word "bombs" and other uncomfortable trigger words. I'm pretty sure everyone hates the TSA - if it's made funny or largely agreeable it becomes a real test of their authority. Then again, I wouldn't have the guts to do what this guy or the guy who got naked did.