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You base that assumption on the visualizations in the center I guess ? They are not actually everything the car sees and reacts to. Especially not in our German

You base that assumption on the visualizations in the center I guess ? They are not actually everything the car sees and reacts to. Especially not in our German FSD cars

Fischgericht 1y ago
I am aware that FSD has a different software stack. But it's the same hardware. So why would they make the detection of kids different on the standard firmware artificially worse? As Marketing for people who hate school kids? I find it laughable that there still are Musk fanboys who after a decade of lies about this still believe in "Robotaxis". 90% of them clearly have never tried to drive a Tesla in a scenario where the minimal protections for kids to use public street space is not "kids should get a SUV to not get killed". It is also amusing to watch videos of Tesla fanboys on YouTube who proudly show that their Tesla now can use FSD for up to 500 miles without a single crash (or "critical disengagement)". A human driver statistically causes a crash every 500,000 miles. But yes, we will have flying Robotaxis in 2 weeks from now, that will solve this problem. Musk said so. :)
- robertlagrant 1y ago
  Other than the first paragraph, this all seems to be replying to something else?
- yreg 1y ago
  > I am aware that FSD has a different software stack. But it's the same hardware. So why would they make the detection of kids different on the standard firmware artificially worse? As Marketing for people who hate school kids? Not sure what's your argument here. The visualization you get using "Enhanced Autopilot" is completely different to the one you get using "FSD Beta" because the software you are running is completely different as well.
  - Fischgericht 1y ago
    The point is not the visualization towards the driver. It's that the same data clearly is the base for the decisions this car makes. If it is not showing the kid crossing the street, you also will not get an emergency break warning, which I get in tons of other situations. What you see is what you get.
    - yreg 1y ago
      I'm sorry, I struggle to understand your point. Which one is it? - Do you think that a Tesla with an enhanced Autopilot would hit a kid because you don't see it in the visualization? - Or do you think that a Tesla with FSD Beta would hit a kid because it uses "the same data" as the one without it?
      - lechatonnoir 1y ago
        I think the idea is, why would the visualization be so intentionally bad in the Autopilot version as to not detect the kids entirely? What benefit does that confer, or, from another perspective, what software constraint forces this to be the case?
        Fischgericht 1y ago
        Exactly that, yes. Thank you.
        yreg 1y ago
        It's not _intentionally bad_. Autopilot and FSD are _different products_ with _different tech_. It's not like they could simply copy `detect_children()` from FSD to Autopilot and call it a day.
        lechatonnoir 1y ago
        Hmm, that might be possible, but that's essentially not what I assumed. At the very least, they operate on the same hardware, so Autopilot is in some sense "intentionally bad" as a whole.
- infecto 1y ago
  Not defending Musk, I don’t like him but I am not sure why you would think two separate software stacks should somehow be comparable. Maybe it’s my old age but I get tired of these style of rants where folks are fixated on a single thing.

You base that assumption on the visualizations in the center I guess ? They are not actually everything the car sees and reacts to. Especially not in our German FSD cars

Fischgericht 1y ago

I am aware that FSD has a different software stack. But it's the same hardware. So why would they make the detection of kids different on the standard firmware artificially worse? As Marketing for people who hate school kids? I find it laughable that there still are Musk fanboys who after a decade of lies about this still believe in "Robotaxis". 90% of them clearly have never tried to drive a Tesla in a scenario where the minimal protections for kids to use public street space is not "kids should get a SUV to not get killed". It is also amusing to watch videos of Tesla fanboys on YouTube who proudly show that their Tesla now can use FSD for up to 500 miles without a single crash (or "critical disengagement)". A human driver statistically causes a crash every 500,000 miles. But yes, we will have flying Robotaxis in 2 weeks from now, that will solve this problem. Musk said so. :)

robertlagrant 1y ago
Other than the first paragraph, this all seems to be replying to something else?
yreg 1y ago
> I am aware that FSD has a different software stack. But it's the same hardware. So why would they make the detection of kids different on the standard firmware artificially worse? As Marketing for people who hate school kids? Not sure what's your argument here. The visualization you get using "Enhanced Autopilot" is completely different to the one you get using "FSD Beta" because the software you are running is completely different as well.
- Fischgericht 1y ago
  The point is not the visualization towards the driver. It's that the same data clearly is the base for the decisions this car makes. If it is not showing the kid crossing the street, you also will not get an emergency break warning, which I get in tons of other situations. What you see is what you get.
  - yreg 1y ago
    I'm sorry, I struggle to understand your point. Which one is it? - Do you think that a Tesla with an enhanced Autopilot would hit a kid because you don't see it in the visualization? - Or do you think that a Tesla with FSD Beta would hit a kid because it uses "the same data" as the one without it?
    - lechatonnoir 1y ago
      I think the idea is, why would the visualization be so intentionally bad in the Autopilot version as to not detect the kids entirely? What benefit does that confer, or, from another perspective, what software constraint forces this to be the case?
      - Fischgericht 1y ago
        Exactly that, yes. Thank you.
      - yreg 1y ago
        It's not _intentionally bad_. Autopilot and FSD are _different products_ with _different tech_. It's not like they could simply copy `detect_children()` from FSD to Autopilot and call it a day.
        lechatonnoir 1y ago
        Hmm, that might be possible, but that's essentially not what I assumed. At the very least, they operate on the same hardware, so Autopilot is in some sense "intentionally bad" as a whole.
infecto 1y ago
Not defending Musk, I don’t like him but I am not sure why you would think two separate software stacks should somehow be comparable. Maybe it’s my old age but I get tired of these style of rants where folks are fixated on a single thing.