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USB C is a huge downgrade from lightning. The lightning connector is far more robust. The little inner connector board on USB C is so fragile. I’ll never unders

USB C is a huge downgrade from lightning. The lightning connector is far more robust. The little inner connector board on USB C is so fragile. I’ll never understand why people wanted this so badly.

Cloudef 1y ago
Literally every other device is usb-c, thats why
- ajr0 1y ago
  I'm a big fan of this change, however, I think to a black mirror episode [0] where essentially little robot dogs could interface with everything they came into contact with because every connection was the same, it may be trivial to have multiple connections for a weapon like this but the take away I had from this is that 'variety' may be better than a single standardized solution. Partly because it is more expensive to plan for multiple types of inputs and making the cost of war go up will make it more difficult which I think inherently is the idea behind some of the larger cybersecurity companies, a hack can only work once then everyone has defenses for it after that single successful attack, this makes it more expensive to successfully stage attacks. Huge digression from this convo... but I think back to this constantly. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalhead_(Black_Mirror) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalhead_(Black_Mirror)
  - lxgr 1y ago
    Proprietary ports are textbook security by obscurity.
  - intended 1y ago
    Many defensive are a trade off between the convenience of non attackers, and the trouble created for attackers. Given the sheer number of devices we interact with in a single day, USB-C as a standard is worth the trade off for an increase in our threat surface area. 1000 Attackers can carry around N extra charging wires anyway. 10^7 users having to keep say, 3 extra charging wires on average? That’s a huge increase in costs and resources. (Numbers made up)
  - bee_rider 1y ago
    Two thoughts: 1) Surely the world conquering robo-army could get some adapters. 2) To the extend to which this makes anything more difficult, it is just that it makes everything a tiny bit less convenient. This includes the world-conquering robo-army, but also everything else we do. It is a general argument against capacity, which can’t be right, right?
  - lou1306 1y ago
    So I suppose Lightning's abysmally slow transfer speed is also a security feature? No way you can exfiltrate my photo roll at 60 MBps :)
- itake 1y ago
  All of my devices are lightening. Now I have to carry around 2 cables.
  - broodbucket 1y ago
    There's simply more people with the opposite problem, especially in markets where Apple is less prevalent, which is most of them around the world. When there's more than one type of cable, plenty of people are going to be inconvenienced when one is chosen as the cable to rule them all, but in the end everyone wins, it's just annoying to get there.
    - jjk166 1y ago
      > plenty of people are going to be inconvenienced when one is chosen as the cable to rule them all, but in the end everyone wins That's not everyone wins. The people that actually bought these devices now have cables that don't work and need to replace with a lower quality product, and the people who were already using something else are continuing to not need cables for these devices. The majority breaks even, a significant minority loses. Simply not choosing one cable to rule them all lets everyone win. There is no compelling reason for one size to fit all.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - FeepingCreature 1y ago
        It's a temporary drawback; everyone wins in the long term because there's only one standard.
        jjk166 1y ago
        Again, that's not a win for anybody. No one winds up in a better position than where they started, there is no payback in exchange for the temporary drawback, which also isn't temporary if the final standard is inferior. If some people like hip hop but more people like country, it's not a win for everybody to eliminate the hip hop radio stations so we can all listen to a single country station.
ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
Reminds me of something…[0] [0] https://foreverstudios.com/betamax-vs-vhs/ https://foreverstudios.com/betamax-vs-vhs/
lxgr 1y ago
Have you ever had one fail on an Apple device? The accurate comparison here isn’t between random low-budget USB-C implementations and Lightning on iPhones, but between USB-C and Lightning both on iPhones, and as far as I can tell, it’s holding up nicely.
- xlii 1y ago
  I have multiple ones. They accumulate dust easily and get damaged much more often. You won’t see that if 99% of the time is in clean environment. As of today I have 3 iPhones that won’t charge on the wire. Those are physical damages so it’s not like anything covers it (and Apple Care is not available in Poland). Same happens with the cables. I’m replacing USB-C display cable (that’s lightning I suppose) every year now because they get loose and start to disconnect if you sneeze in the vicinity. I despise USB-C with all my heart. Amount of cable trash has tripled over the years.
  - lostlogin 1y ago
    Maybe try wireless charging. I find it superior to both lightning and USB-C.
    - xlii 1y ago
      I do, I rarely use USB-C on Apple devices (well outside of Mac). Wireless is great and I have nice looking night clock and moving files/other stuff over airdrop works good enough for me not plugging anything in. Recently I had to charge over the phone which required removal of pocket lint beforehand.
khimaros 1y ago
with USB-C, the fragile end is on the cable instead of the port. that is a design feature.
- com2kid 1y ago
  I thought so, but my Pixel 9 USB-C port falls out of place now after less than a year. :(
  - shadowgovt 1y ago
    Same problem. This may be the last Pixel I own because two in a row now have lost their USB-C sockets.
linotype 1y ago
What are you doing to your USB-C devices? I’ve owned dozens and never had a single port break.
Our_Benefactors 1y ago
It’s a huge upgrade on the basis of allowing me to remove lightning cables from my life On a specsheet basis it also charges faster and has a higher data transmission rate. Lightning cables are not more robust. They are known to commonly short across the power pins, often turning the cable into an only-works-on-one-side defect. I replaced at least one cable every year due to this.
shadowgovt 1y ago
Lightning was basically what happened when Apple got tired of waiting for the standards committee to converge on what USB-C would be, so they did their own. And... yeah, it turned out better than the standard. Their engineers have really good taste.
- WA 1y ago
  And then the rest of the world got tired of Apple not proposing this supposedly superior piece of engineering as a new standard... because of licensing shenanigans.
bowsamic 1y ago
Because I can charge my iPhone, my AirPods, and my mac, all with the same charger
lrvick 1y ago
If lightning was an open standard then it would objectively be better than USB-C and would likely have won. Instead Apple chose to make a good improvement on USB-C proprietary, and thus it will die like 8-track, betamax, and minidiscs. Vendor lock-in is so big of a negative that everyone will pick whatever the least-bad open alternative is.

USB C is a huge downgrade from lightning. The lightning connector is far more robust. The little inner connector board on USB C is so fragile. I’ll never understand why people wanted this so badly.

Cloudef 1y ago

Literally every other device is usb-c, thats why

ajr0 1y ago
I'm a big fan of this change, however, I think to a black mirror episode [0] where essentially little robot dogs could interface with everything they came into contact with because every connection was the same, it may be trivial to have multiple connections for a weapon like this but the take away I had from this is that 'variety' may be better than a single standardized solution. Partly because it is more expensive to plan for multiple types of inputs and making the cost of war go up will make it more difficult which I think inherently is the idea behind some of the larger cybersecurity companies, a hack can only work once then everyone has defenses for it after that single successful attack, this makes it more expensive to successfully stage attacks. Huge digression from this convo... but I think back to this constantly. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalhead_(Black_Mirror) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalhead_(Black_Mirror)
- lxgr 1y ago
  Proprietary ports are textbook security by obscurity.
- intended 1y ago
  Many defensive are a trade off between the convenience of non attackers, and the trouble created for attackers. Given the sheer number of devices we interact with in a single day, USB-C as a standard is worth the trade off for an increase in our threat surface area. 1000 Attackers can carry around N extra charging wires anyway. 10^7 users having to keep say, 3 extra charging wires on average? That’s a huge increase in costs and resources. (Numbers made up)
- bee_rider 1y ago
  Two thoughts: 1) Surely the world conquering robo-army could get some adapters. 2) To the extend to which this makes anything more difficult, it is just that it makes everything a tiny bit less convenient. This includes the world-conquering robo-army, but also everything else we do. It is a general argument against capacity, which can’t be right, right?
- lou1306 1y ago
  So I suppose Lightning's abysmally slow transfer speed is also a security feature? No way you can exfiltrate my photo roll at 60 MBps :)
itake 1y ago
All of my devices are lightening. Now I have to carry around 2 cables.
- broodbucket 1y ago
  There's simply more people with the opposite problem, especially in markets where Apple is less prevalent, which is most of them around the world. When there's more than one type of cable, plenty of people are going to be inconvenienced when one is chosen as the cable to rule them all, but in the end everyone wins, it's just annoying to get there.
  - jjk166 1y ago
    > plenty of people are going to be inconvenienced when one is chosen as the cable to rule them all, but in the end everyone wins That's not everyone wins. The people that actually bought these devices now have cables that don't work and need to replace with a lower quality product, and the people who were already using something else are continuing to not need cables for these devices. The majority breaks even, a significant minority loses. Simply not choosing one cable to rule them all lets everyone win. There is no compelling reason for one size to fit all.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - FeepingCreature 1y ago
      It's a temporary drawback; everyone wins in the long term because there's only one standard.
      - jjk166 1y ago
        Again, that's not a win for anybody. No one winds up in a better position than where they started, there is no payback in exchange for the temporary drawback, which also isn't temporary if the final standard is inferior. If some people like hip hop but more people like country, it's not a win for everybody to eliminate the hip hop radio stations so we can all listen to a single country station.

ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago

Reminds me of something…[0] [0] https://foreverstudios.com/betamax-vs-vhs/ https://foreverstudios.com/betamax-vs-vhs/

lxgr 1y ago

Have you ever had one fail on an Apple device? The accurate comparison here isn’t between random low-budget USB-C implementations and Lightning on iPhones, but between USB-C and Lightning both on iPhones, and as far as I can tell, it’s holding up nicely.

xlii 1y ago
I have multiple ones. They accumulate dust easily and get damaged much more often. You won’t see that if 99% of the time is in clean environment. As of today I have 3 iPhones that won’t charge on the wire. Those are physical damages so it’s not like anything covers it (and Apple Care is not available in Poland). Same happens with the cables. I’m replacing USB-C display cable (that’s lightning I suppose) every year now because they get loose and start to disconnect if you sneeze in the vicinity. I despise USB-C with all my heart. Amount of cable trash has tripled over the years.
- lostlogin 1y ago
  Maybe try wireless charging. I find it superior to both lightning and USB-C.
  - xlii 1y ago
    I do, I rarely use USB-C on Apple devices (well outside of Mac). Wireless is great and I have nice looking night clock and moving files/other stuff over airdrop works good enough for me not plugging anything in. Recently I had to charge over the phone which required removal of pocket lint beforehand.

khimaros 1y ago

with USB-C, the fragile end is on the cable instead of the port. that is a design feature.

com2kid 1y ago
I thought so, but my Pixel 9 USB-C port falls out of place now after less than a year. :(
- shadowgovt 1y ago
  Same problem. This may be the last Pixel I own because two in a row now have lost their USB-C sockets.

linotype 1y ago

What are you doing to your USB-C devices? I’ve owned dozens and never had a single port break.

Our_Benefactors 1y ago

It’s a huge upgrade on the basis of allowing me to remove lightning cables from my life On a specsheet basis it also charges faster and has a higher data transmission rate. Lightning cables are not more robust. They are known to commonly short across the power pins, often turning the cable into an only-works-on-one-side defect. I replaced at least one cable every year due to this.

shadowgovt 1y ago

Lightning was basically what happened when Apple got tired of waiting for the standards committee to converge on what USB-C would be, so they did their own. And... yeah, it turned out better than the standard. Their engineers have really good taste.

WA 1y ago
And then the rest of the world got tired of Apple not proposing this supposedly superior piece of engineering as a new standard... because of licensing shenanigans.

bowsamic 1y ago

Because I can charge my iPhone, my AirPods, and my mac, all with the same charger

lrvick 1y ago

If lightning was an open standard then it would objectively be better than USB-C and would likely have won. Instead Apple chose to make a good improvement on USB-C proprietary, and thus it will die like 8-track, betamax, and minidiscs. Vendor lock-in is so big of a negative that everyone will pick whatever the least-bad open alternative is.