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> OpenAI is NOW DIRECTED to preserve and segregate all output log data that would otherwise be deleted on a going forward basis until further order of the Court
by lxgr 1y ago
> OpenAI is NOW DIRECTED to preserve and segregate all output log data that would otherwise be deleted on a going forward basis until further order of the Court (in essence, the output log data that OpenAI has been destroying), whether such data might be deleted at a user’s request or because of “numerous privacy laws and regulations” that might require OpenAI to do so.
Spicy. European courts and governments will love to see their laws and legal opinions being shrugged away in ironic quotes.
- KingOfCoders 1y agoEU–US Data Privacy Framework is an US scam to get European user data.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- wkat4242 1y agoIt totally is that's why it keeps being shot down by the courts and relaunched under a different name. But the EU willingly participates in this. Probably because they know there's no viable alternative for the big clouds. This is coming now though since the US instantly.
- Y_Y 1y agoI know I viable alternative to the big clouds. Don't use them! They cost too much in dollar terms, they all try to EEE lock you in with "managed" (and subtly incompatible) versions of services you would otherwise run yourself. They are too big to give a shit about laws or customer whims. I have plenty of experience with the big three clouds and given the choice I'll run locally, or on e.g. Hetzner, or not at all. My company loves to penny-pinch things like lunch reimbursement and necessary tools, but we piss away latge sums on unused or under-used cloud capacity with glee, be ause that is magically billed elsewhere (from the point of view of a given manager). It's a racket, and I'm by mo means the first to say so. The fact that this money-racket is also a dat-racket doesn't surprise me in the least. It's just good racketeering!
- wkat4242 1y agoYes. Cloud is great for a very specific usecase. Venture capital startups which either go viral and explode, or die within a year. In those cases you need the capacity to automatically scale and also to only pay for the resources you actually use so you the service pays for itself. You also have no capex and you can drop the costs instantly if you need to close up shop. For services that really need infinite and instant scaling and flexibility, cloud is a genuinely great option. However that's not what most traditional companies do. What my employer does, is picking up the physical servers they had in our datacenters, dump them on an AWS compute box they run 24/7 without any kind of orchestration and call it "cloud". That's not what cloud is, that is really just someone else's computer. We spend a LOT more now but our CIO wanted to "go cloud" because everyone is so it was more a tickbox than a real improvement. Microservices, object storage etc, that is cloud.
- KingOfCoders 1y ago"But the EU willingly participates in this." Parts of the European Commission "influenced" by lobbyists collude with the US.
- wkat4242 1y agoSorry "instantly" should have been "is in chaos". Autocorrect...
- reassess_blind 1y agoWill the EU respond by blocking them from doing business in the EU, given they're not abiding by GDPR?
- echelon 1y agoHopefully. We need many strong AI players. This would be a great way to ensure Europe can grow its own.
- ronsor 1y ago> This would be a great way to ensure Europe can grow its own. The reason this doesn't happen is because of Europe's internal issues, not because of foreign competition.
- lxgr 1y agoArguably, until recently there just wasn't any reason to: Europeans were happy buying American software and online services; Americans were happy buying German cars and pharmaceuticals.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- glookler 1y agoPersonally, I don't think the US clouds win anything on merit. It's hard/pointless to motivate engineers to use other options and their significance doesn't grow since Engineers won't blog that much about them to show their expertise, etc. Certification and experience with a provider with 10%-80% market share is a future employment reason to put up with a lot of trash, and the amount of help to work around that trash that has made it into places like ChatGPT is mindboggling.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
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- shadowgovt 1y agoEurope doesn't have jurisdiction over the US, and US courts have broad leeway in a situation like this.
- lxgr 1y agoSure, but the EU has jurisdiction over European companies and can prohibit them from storing or processing their data in jurisdictions incompatible with its data privacy laws. There's also an obvious compromise here – modify the US court ruling to exclude data of non-US users. Let's hope that cool heads prevail.
- lrvick 1y agoAnd yet, iPhones are shipping usb C. Making separate manufacturing lines for Europe vs US is too expensive, so in effect, Europe forced a US company to be less shitty globally.
- VladVladikoff 1y agoUSB C is a huge downgrade from lightning. The lightning connector is far more robust. The little inner connector board on USB C is so fragile. I’ll never understand why people wanted this so badly.
- Cloudef 1y agoLiterally every other device is usb-c, thats why
- ajr0 1y agoI'm a big fan of this change, however, I think to a black mirror episode [0] where essentially little robot dogs could interface with everything they came into contact with because every connection was the same, it may be trivial to have multiple connections for a weapon like this but the take away I had from this is that 'variety' may be better than a single standardized solution. Partly because it is more expensive to plan for multiple types of inputs and making the cost of war go up will make it more difficult which I think inherently is the idea behind some of the larger cybersecurity companies, a hack can only work once then everyone has defenses for it after that single successful attack, this makes it more expensive to successfully stage attacks. Huge digression from this convo... but I think back to this constantly. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalhead_(Black_Mirror) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalhead_(Black_Mirror)
- Aeolos 1y agoAnd just like that, OpenAI got banned in my company today. Good job.
- PeterStuer 1y agoDon't tell them all their other communication is intercepted and retained on the same basis. Good luck running your business in full isolation.
- DaiPlusPlus 1y ago> OpenAI got banned in my company today Sarbanes–Oxley would like a word.
- Y_Y 1y agoDo you mean to say that Sarbox might preclude this? Or that it should have been banned already? The meaning isn't clear to me and I would be grateful for further explanation.
- DaiPlusPlus 1y agoI’m saying that any org that ditched OpenAI for this specific reason is also likely committing investor fraud.
- Ekaros 1y agoTime to hit them with that 4% fine on revenue while they still have some money...
- Frieren 1y ago> Spicy. European courts and governments will love to see their laws and legal opinions being shrugged away in ironic quotes. The GDPR allows to retain data when require by law as long as needed. People that make regulations may make mistakes sometimes, but they are no that stupid as to not understand the law and what things it may require. The data was correctly deleted on user demand. But it cannot be deleted where there is a Court order in place. The conclusion of "GDPR is in conflict with the law" looks like rage baiting.
- _Algernon_ 1y agoIt's questionable to me whether a court order of a non-eu court applies. "The law" is EU law, not American law. If any non-eu country can circumvent GDPR by just making a law that it doesn't apply, the entire point of the regulation vanishes.
- kbelder 1y agoDoesn't that work both ways? Why should the EU be able to override American laws regarding an American company?
- FeepingCreature 1y agoBecause it's European users whose data is being recorded on the order of a court that doesn't even have jurisdiction over them?
- midasz 1y agoIt doesn't really matter from what country the company is. If you do business in the EU then EU laws apply to the business you do in the EU. Just like EU companies adhere to US law for the business they do in the US.
- Scarblac 1y agoThey can't override laws of course, but it could mean that if two jurisdictions have conflicting laws, you can't be active in both of them.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]