4 ms·

The inclusion of "Embedded" on the front page when all the documents say it's experimental and not supported in public releases "yet" does make me curious if th

The inclusion of "Embedded" on the front page when all the documents say it's experimental and not supported in public releases "yet" does make me curious if they will announce more at WWDC. The big hopes for me this year of WWDC would be a Swift port of the Foundation DB record layer, from Java, along with a decent http server package. It's underappreciated just how useful it is in golang having a production capable http server in the standard library.

cosmic_cheese 1y ago
I know a lot of people don’t like extensive stdlibs, but I’m not among them. As long as the stuff in the standard library is actually decent, I’m all for including more. The fewer dependencies I need, the better. It’s one of the reasons why I’m still a big fan of developing for Apple platforms despite the recent drama: it’s a very batteries-included experience, which means it’s not just feasible but pleasant to develop top-class apps with a dependency list that can be counted on one hand. That’s amazing for not just the dev process itself but also for long term maintenance.
tiffanyh 1y ago
> Apple's Secure Enclave processors run software written in Embedded Swift, as was announced at WWDC last year. Apple shipped 225 million iPhones (just iPhones) in 2024, so that's a very large deployment by any industry's standards. https://forums.swift.org/t/redesigned-swift-org-is-now-live/80296/9 https://forums.swift.org/t/redesigned-swift-org-is-now-live/...
- ohdeargodno 1y ago
  Released on a single architecture, hand in hand with the builders of them architectures that happen to also be the builders of Swift. Working on a dozen architectures with only 10 000 units sold each would be a better proof of it being a valid option for embedded development, but I guess the industry standards are whatever we make up today.
jiehong 1y ago
I find the golang http server very basic, though. Like no content negotiation based on http headers by default, or any CORS by default. Also maybe writing headed after body does nothing since writing the body sends the response and it’s too late by then. It does work, but I don’t find it ready for production without a lot of conf and extensions first.
sparky4pro 1y ago
I would like to work with a Swift version with reduced functionality (IMHO over time Swift became the same monstrosity as C++) but the embedded version cannot be used with “normal” operating systems only embedded ones. Why this artificial boundary? Apple…
vaxman 1y ago
They need sideline embedded until they release a proto board and a compute module with Apple Silicon SoCs running Linux or Darwin. If Apple drops support for the embedded variant of Swift then it would be up to enthusiasts to carry on and I don't see that happening. This is also why the other OEMs like Nordic and STMicro are more likely to support Micro/CircuitPython than Swift.

cosmic_cheese 1y ago

I know a lot of people don’t like extensive stdlibs, but I’m not among them. As long as the stuff in the standard library is actually decent, I’m all for including more. The fewer dependencies I need, the better. It’s one of the reasons why I’m still a big fan of developing for Apple platforms despite the recent drama: it’s a very batteries-included experience, which means it’s not just feasible but pleasant to develop top-class apps with a dependency list that can be counted on one hand. That’s amazing for not just the dev process itself but also for long term maintenance.

tiffanyh 1y ago

> Apple's Secure Enclave processors run software written in Embedded Swift, as was announced at WWDC last year. Apple shipped 225 million iPhones (just iPhones) in 2024, so that's a very large deployment by any industry's standards. https://forums.swift.org/t/redesigned-swift-org-is-now-live/80296/9 https://forums.swift.org/t/redesigned-swift-org-is-now-live/...

ohdeargodno 1y ago
Released on a single architecture, hand in hand with the builders of them architectures that happen to also be the builders of Swift. Working on a dozen architectures with only 10 000 units sold each would be a better proof of it being a valid option for embedded development, but I guess the industry standards are whatever we make up today.

jiehong 1y ago

I find the golang http server very basic, though. Like no content negotiation based on http headers by default, or any CORS by default. Also maybe writing headed after body does nothing since writing the body sends the response and it’s too late by then. It does work, but I don’t find it ready for production without a lot of conf and extensions first.

sparky4pro 1y ago

I would like to work with a Swift version with reduced functionality (IMHO over time Swift became the same monstrosity as C++) but the embedded version cannot be used with “normal” operating systems only embedded ones. Why this artificial boundary? Apple…

vaxman 1y ago

They need sideline embedded until they release a proto board and a compute module with Apple Silicon SoCs running Linux or Darwin. If Apple drops support for the embedded variant of Swift then it would be up to enthusiasts to carry on and I don't see that happening. This is also why the other OEMs like Nordic and STMicro are more likely to support Micro/CircuitPython than Swift.