3 ms·

Of the 3000 cars only 800 were EVs, and there’s no evidence yet they were the source of the fire. The headline seems misleading.

topkai22 1y ago
From the MSN article linked below: “ UK-based shipowner Zodiac Maritime has since confirmed that the fire originated in the section of the vessel carrying electric vehicles.”
- whartung 1y ago
  Is an EV with 2% charge in the battery any more or less prone to spontaneous combustion than one with 10%, 50%, or 100% of charge? I'm under the assumption that these are roll on/roll off carriers and that cars themselves are driven on and off (so they have some level of charge or fuel). I know that batteries (apparently) can "just catch fire", I just don't know what the risk of fire to charge capacity of the battery is.
  - dboreham 1y ago
    Higher than 80% is bad.
  - lazide 1y ago
    Higher state of charge absolutely correlates with fire danger - there are physical mechanisms in play where highly charged lithium batteries can have dentritic shorts, for example, which cause thermal runaway almost immediately. It’s a much higher risk during charging as that is when the structures typically form, but they can also be borderline and then ‘cross the border’ suddenly when just sitting there.
  - SoftTalker 1y ago
    It stands to reason (and simple physics/chemistry) that a fully-charged battery is going to burn more intensely than a depleted one. But as I undertstand it, Li ion batteries need a minimum "base" charge below which the battery can be damaged or become unable to be recharged (at least not by normal means). So I'd guess that like phones and other devices, they are shipped with roughly a 50% charge, allowing them to be driven on and off the ship and then on and off a truck before finally arriving at the retail dealership or other buyer's location.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
legitster 1y ago
Even if the EVs were not the source of the fire, they were surely the cause of the firefighting problems the coast guard had. Once ignited, EV fires are quite a thing.
- audunw 1y ago
  The intensity of an EV is almost the same as that of an ICE car. A little bit less severe actually. There’s a study from Sweden that set an EV and ICE on fire and measures the energy/heat from the fire over time. The curves are fairly similar. An EV battery is much less likely to catch fire from nearby car fires. A whole parking garage burned down at Sola airport in Norway, with lots of EV inside. Not a single battery pack ignited. The challenge with EVs is thermal runaway. That can last for hours, and if you don’t cool it down the intense heat will ignite other flammable materials (plastic) in the car, or nearby cars. It shouldn’t be too hard to make these ships EV fire proof. You just need something that can spray water on each car from beneath. That will keep thermal runway contained to a single car.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    That's a misleading slight of hand. You can choke off a "normal" fire with foam and water. Can't do that with a fire that comes with its own oxidizer. From a firefighting perspective, which is what the comment you're responding to is talking about, a battery absolutely is the bigger PITA even if there's less energy release per input. You can knock it down all day and it'll just keep coming right back up.
  - mmmBacon 1y ago
    This is fundamentally incorrect and even a basic Google search returns: EV and gas-powered vehicle fires pose different challenges to firefighters. EV fires are harder to extinguish due to deep-seated heat in batteries, potential for reignition, and release of flammable and toxic gases. Traditional firefighting techniques might not be sufficient, and specialized equipment like submersion tanks or specific types of foam are often needed. Here's a more detailed breakdown: EV Fires: Higher Temperatures: EV fires can burn hotter than gas-powered vehicle fires, reaching temperatures of 1,200°F or more. Reignition: EV batteries can reignite hours or even days after a fire, even after the flames have been extinguished. Toxic Gases: Burning EV batteries release flammable gases (like hydrogen and methane) and other hazardous chemicals, posing a threat to firefighters and the environment. Difficult to Extinguish: Traditional firefighting methods, like using water or foam, may not be effective in cooling the battery cells to the point where the fire is extinguished. Special techniques like submersion tanks or specialized foam are often required. Prolonged Fire Suppression: EV fires can take longer to fully suppress compared to traditional car fires. Gas-Powered Vehicle Fires:
whynotmaybe 1y ago
I don't know if there's any relation but I see clear surge in anti EV news in North America and Europe, so much that my apophenia is itching a lot.
neogodless 1y ago
Specifically 65 full EV and 681 hybrids. Per a link I posted, EV are not necessarily the cause of the fires, though they do consistently make it more difficult to extinguish.

topkai22 1y ago

From the MSN article linked below: “ UK-based shipowner Zodiac Maritime has since confirmed that the fire originated in the section of the vessel carrying electric vehicles.”

whartung 1y ago
Is an EV with 2% charge in the battery any more or less prone to spontaneous combustion than one with 10%, 50%, or 100% of charge? I'm under the assumption that these are roll on/roll off carriers and that cars themselves are driven on and off (so they have some level of charge or fuel). I know that batteries (apparently) can "just catch fire", I just don't know what the risk of fire to charge capacity of the battery is.
- dboreham 1y ago
  Higher than 80% is bad.
- lazide 1y ago
  Higher state of charge absolutely correlates with fire danger - there are physical mechanisms in play where highly charged lithium batteries can have dentritic shorts, for example, which cause thermal runaway almost immediately. It’s a much higher risk during charging as that is when the structures typically form, but they can also be borderline and then ‘cross the border’ suddenly when just sitting there.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  It stands to reason (and simple physics/chemistry) that a fully-charged battery is going to burn more intensely than a depleted one. But as I undertstand it, Li ion batteries need a minimum "base" charge below which the battery can be damaged or become unable to be recharged (at least not by normal means). So I'd guess that like phones and other devices, they are shipped with roughly a 50% charge, allowing them to be driven on and off the ship and then on and off a truck before finally arriving at the retail dealership or other buyer's location.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

legitster 1y ago

Even if the EVs were not the source of the fire, they were surely the cause of the firefighting problems the coast guard had. Once ignited, EV fires are quite a thing.

audunw 1y ago
The intensity of an EV is almost the same as that of an ICE car. A little bit less severe actually. There’s a study from Sweden that set an EV and ICE on fire and measures the energy/heat from the fire over time. The curves are fairly similar. An EV battery is much less likely to catch fire from nearby car fires. A whole parking garage burned down at Sola airport in Norway, with lots of EV inside. Not a single battery pack ignited. The challenge with EVs is thermal runaway. That can last for hours, and if you don’t cool it down the intense heat will ignite other flammable materials (plastic) in the car, or nearby cars. It shouldn’t be too hard to make these ships EV fire proof. You just need something that can spray water on each car from beneath. That will keep thermal runway contained to a single car.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  That's a misleading slight of hand. You can choke off a "normal" fire with foam and water. Can't do that with a fire that comes with its own oxidizer. From a firefighting perspective, which is what the comment you're responding to is talking about, a battery absolutely is the bigger PITA even if there's less energy release per input. You can knock it down all day and it'll just keep coming right back up.
- mmmBacon 1y ago
  This is fundamentally incorrect and even a basic Google search returns: EV and gas-powered vehicle fires pose different challenges to firefighters. EV fires are harder to extinguish due to deep-seated heat in batteries, potential for reignition, and release of flammable and toxic gases. Traditional firefighting techniques might not be sufficient, and specialized equipment like submersion tanks or specific types of foam are often needed. Here's a more detailed breakdown: EV Fires: Higher Temperatures: EV fires can burn hotter than gas-powered vehicle fires, reaching temperatures of 1,200°F or more. Reignition: EV batteries can reignite hours or even days after a fire, even after the flames have been extinguished. Toxic Gases: Burning EV batteries release flammable gases (like hydrogen and methane) and other hazardous chemicals, posing a threat to firefighters and the environment. Difficult to Extinguish: Traditional firefighting methods, like using water or foam, may not be effective in cooling the battery cells to the point where the fire is extinguished. Special techniques like submersion tanks or specialized foam are often required. Prolonged Fire Suppression: EV fires can take longer to fully suppress compared to traditional car fires. Gas-Powered Vehicle Fires:

whynotmaybe 1y ago

I don't know if there's any relation but I see clear surge in anti EV news in North America and Europe, so much that my apophenia is itching a lot.

neogodless 1y ago

Specifically 65 full EV and 681 hybrids. Per a link I posted, EV are not necessarily the cause of the fires, though they do consistently make it more difficult to extinguish.