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and just to play devil's advocate maybe some people don't enjoy that? remove the issue of training the next generation for a moment. just like with open vs. cl

and just to play devil's advocate maybe some people don't enjoy that? remove the issue of training the next generation for a moment. just like with open vs. closed offices or remote vs in-person, maybe some people have all the human interaction they want outside of work and don't mind "talking" to some AI as long as it gets shit done in the manner they want.

bluefirebrand 1y ago
> maybe some people have all the human interaction they want outside of work and don't mind "talking" to some AI as long as it gets shit done in the manner they want This isn't about satisfying a person's need for socializing it is about satisfying society's need for well socialized people You can prefer closed offices and still be a well socialized person You can prefer remote work and still be a well socialized person You can even prefer working alone and still be a well socialized person If you are in favor of replacing all humans with machines, you are pretty much by definition an asocial person and society should reject you
- ookblah 1y ago
  you're making a strawman here. it was never black and white and i never advocated all humans being replaced with machines so we have zero interaction with each other. every technological push has been to automate more and more and every time that's happened we've reduced socialization to some extent or changed the nature of it (social media anyone? and yes, this also has everything to do with remote vs in-person, etc, all which pull the lever on what level of socialization is acceptable). just because it doesn't fit your particular brand doesn't mean it's wrong, and it's clear this is pushing on your line where you find it unacceptable. i could just as well argue that people who do not show up to an in-person office are not "socialized" to the degree society needs them to be. the debate has always been to what degree is this acceptable.
lapcat 1y ago
> and just to play devil's advocate Your comment would be improved by simply removing that phrase. It adds nothing and in fact detracts. > just like with open vs. closed offices or remote vs in-person, maybe some people have all the human interaction they want outside of work and don't mind "talking" to some AI as long as it gets shit done in the manner they want. You're presenting a false dichotomy. If someone doesn't enjoying mentoring juniors, that's fine. They shouldn't have to. But why would one have to choose between mentoring juniors or babysitting LLM agents? How about neither? sasmithjr was apparently trying to defend babysitting A.I. by making an analogy with mentoring juniors, whereas I replied by arguing that the two are not alike. Whether or not you enjoy using A.I. is an entirely separate issue, independent of mentoring.
- ookblah 1y ago
  i was trying to frame it as something i'm also grappling with, but i digress poor choice of words. maybe you're responding to the wrong person? because i'm not even disagreeing with you on that. maybe they want both or neither, that's fine. the person i'm responding to is framing mentoring as some kind must have from a "socialization" standpoint (which i disagreed with, but i get the practical aspect of it where if you don't have people train juniors there won't be seniors).
  - bluefirebrand 1y ago
    No, not "socialization" as in "having social interactions with other people" I mean "socialization" as in "being a positive part of and building a society worth living in"
    - ookblah 1y ago
      and why do you think that has to exist solely within the confines of work? not that you said that, but your comments seem to suggest that if you don't like or want to mentor junior devs then you don't value human connections. thus my comment about having enough connections outside of work. if it's rewarding to you that's great, but don't frame it as something bigger than it is. i would hope we are all "being a positive part of and building a society worth living in" in our own way.
      - bluefirebrand 1y ago
        > if you don't like or want to mentor junior devs then you don't value human connections If you don't like or want to mentor the younger generation then you are actively sabotaging the future of society because those people are the future of society Why do I care about the future of society? Because I still have to live in it for another few decades
        ookblah 1y ago
        alright, we can agree to disagree because this so obviously touching a chord with you and you're now literally making sweeping assumptions based on things i've never said. maybe i like taking care of my friends kids, volunteering, or doing other things that contribute to the "future of society"? personally, i think mentoring junior devs is slightly lower on the priority list, but that's my opinion. seriously, how arrogant of you to make assumptions about how others think about the future based on a tiny slice of your personal life lol.

bluefirebrand 1y ago

> maybe some people have all the human interaction they want outside of work and don't mind "talking" to some AI as long as it gets shit done in the manner they want This isn't about satisfying a person's need for socializing it is about satisfying society's need for well socialized people You can prefer closed offices and still be a well socialized person You can prefer remote work and still be a well socialized person You can even prefer working alone and still be a well socialized person If you are in favor of replacing all humans with machines, you are pretty much by definition an asocial person and society should reject you

ookblah 1y ago
you're making a strawman here. it was never black and white and i never advocated all humans being replaced with machines so we have zero interaction with each other. every technological push has been to automate more and more and every time that's happened we've reduced socialization to some extent or changed the nature of it (social media anyone? and yes, this also has everything to do with remote vs in-person, etc, all which pull the lever on what level of socialization is acceptable). just because it doesn't fit your particular brand doesn't mean it's wrong, and it's clear this is pushing on your line where you find it unacceptable. i could just as well argue that people who do not show up to an in-person office are not "socialized" to the degree society needs them to be. the debate has always been to what degree is this acceptable.

lapcat 1y ago

> and just to play devil's advocate Your comment would be improved by simply removing that phrase. It adds nothing and in fact detracts. > just like with open vs. closed offices or remote vs in-person, maybe some people have all the human interaction they want outside of work and don't mind "talking" to some AI as long as it gets shit done in the manner they want. You're presenting a false dichotomy. If someone doesn't enjoying mentoring juniors, that's fine. They shouldn't have to. But why would one have to choose between mentoring juniors or babysitting LLM agents? How about neither? sasmithjr was apparently trying to defend babysitting A.I. by making an analogy with mentoring juniors, whereas I replied by arguing that the two are not alike. Whether or not you enjoy using A.I. is an entirely separate issue, independent of mentoring.

ookblah 1y ago
i was trying to frame it as something i'm also grappling with, but i digress poor choice of words. maybe you're responding to the wrong person? because i'm not even disagreeing with you on that. maybe they want both or neither, that's fine. the person i'm responding to is framing mentoring as some kind must have from a "socialization" standpoint (which i disagreed with, but i get the practical aspect of it where if you don't have people train juniors there won't be seniors).
- bluefirebrand 1y ago
  No, not "socialization" as in "having social interactions with other people" I mean "socialization" as in "being a positive part of and building a society worth living in"
  - ookblah 1y ago
    and why do you think that has to exist solely within the confines of work? not that you said that, but your comments seem to suggest that if you don't like or want to mentor junior devs then you don't value human connections. thus my comment about having enough connections outside of work. if it's rewarding to you that's great, but don't frame it as something bigger than it is. i would hope we are all "being a positive part of and building a society worth living in" in our own way.
    - bluefirebrand 1y ago
      > if you don't like or want to mentor junior devs then you don't value human connections If you don't like or want to mentor the younger generation then you are actively sabotaging the future of society because those people are the future of society Why do I care about the future of society? Because I still have to live in it for another few decades
      - ookblah 1y ago
        alright, we can agree to disagree because this so obviously touching a chord with you and you're now literally making sweeping assumptions based on things i've never said. maybe i like taking care of my friends kids, volunteering, or doing other things that contribute to the "future of society"? personally, i think mentoring junior devs is slightly lower on the priority list, but that's my opinion. seriously, how arrogant of you to make assumptions about how others think about the future based on a tiny slice of your personal life lol.