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I am so incredibly excited for WebRTC broadcasting. I wrote up some reasons in the Broadcast Box[0] README and the OBS PR [1] Now that GStreamer, OBS and FFmpe

I am so incredibly excited for WebRTC broadcasting. I wrote up some reasons in the Broadcast Box[0] README and the OBS PR [1] Now that GStreamer, OBS and FFmpeg all have WHIP support we finally have a ubiquitous protocol for video broadcasting for all platforms (Mobile, Web, Embedded, Broadcasting Software etc...) I have been working on Open Source + WebRTC Broadcasting for years now. This is a huge milestone :) [0] https://github.com/Glimesh/broadcast-box?tab=readme-ov-file#what-is-broadcast-box https://github.com/Glimesh/broadcast-box?tab=readme-ov-file#... [1] https://github.com/obsproject/obs-studio/pull/7926 https://github.com/obsproject/obs-studio/pull/7926

maxmcd 1y ago
Thanks for all your work Sean! It's been a delight to use your webrtc libs and see your impact across a broad range of technical efforts.
- Sean-Der 1y ago
  Thank you :) When are you coming back to the WebRTC space, lots more cool stuff you could b doing :) I really loved [0] it's so cool that a user can access a server behind a firewall/NAT without setting up a VPN or having SSH constantly listening. [0] https://github.com/maxmcd/webtty https://github.com/maxmcd/webtty
WhyNotHugo 1y ago
Are there any video players which can play a webrtc stream? Last I checked, VLC and other popular tools still don’t support it.
- RedShift1 1y ago
  That's impossible, VLC supports everything. If VLC doesn't support it, it doesn't exist.
  - byteknight 1y ago
    Amen.
  - mey 1y ago
    XAVC HS 4k 10Bit HEVC 4:2:2 on Windows. Plex and ffmpeg, perfectly fine. VLC is not a fan.
  - lillecarl 1y ago
    While that might be true I've found mpv more approachable when doing weird inputs
  - oskenso 1y ago
    I wish vlc supported usf, 2sf and minigsf
- numpad0 1y ago
  [1]: gst-launch-1.0 playbin3 uri="gstwebrtc://localhost:8443?peer-id=<webrtcsink-peer-id>" WebRTC is normally used in bidirectional use cases like video chat with text options, so I don't think it so odd that VLC doesn't outright support it. VLC does not support dialing into an Asterisk server, either. [1] https://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/documentation/rswebrtc/webrtcsrc.html https://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/documentation/rswebrtc/web...
- mortoc 1y ago
  I'd guess VLC will get support for it soon now that ffmpeg supports it.
  - Gormo 1y ago
    Possibly, but VLC maintains its own codec libraries and doesn't rely on FFMpeg.
- shmerl 1y ago
  Should ffplay support it if ffmpeg added support for it in general?
- bilekas 1y ago
  Maybe I'm wrong but in this case, couldn't you create your own middleware server that could consume the Weber stream feed and then stream out as a regular vlc consumable feed? I'm guessing there will be some transcoding on the fly but that should be trivial..
1oooqooq 1y ago
i was using vnc for remote dosbox gaming on the phone. now i can sink infinite amount of time trying to do a input handler webapp and using this+obs instead! thanks!
- athrun 1y ago
  I've also been trying (and mostly failing) to build such a setup over the last few weeks. What are you thinking in terms of the overall building blocks to get this to work? I've been struggling to get a proper low-latency screen+audio recording going (on macos) and streaming that over WebRTC. Either the audio gets de-sync, or the streaming latency is too high.
  - 1oooqooq 1y ago
    games i plan to play don't care about latency, which solves most of your problems :) but this+obs+a webapp for input+ydotool to pass the input to dosbox. then i can just open a page on the browser on the phone.
monocularvision 1y ago
Your work in this area has been phenomenal. Thank you! I use broadcast-box all the time.
- echelon 1y ago
  What sort of infrastructure do you need for scaling WebRTC multicast? Are we entering an era where you don't need Amazon's budget to host something like Twitch?
  - Sean-Der 1y ago
    Yes we are :) When OBS merges the PR [0] things are going to get very interesting. Before you needed to run expensive transcoding jobs to be able to support heterogenous clients. Once we get Simulcast the only cost will be bandwidth. With Hetzner I am paying $1 a TB. With AV1 or H265 + Simulcast I am getting 4K for hundreds of users on just a single server. We will have some growing pains, but I am not giving up until I can make this accessible to everyone. [0] https://github.com/obsproject/obs-studio/pull/10885 https://github.com/obsproject/obs-studio/pull/10885
    - matt-p 1y ago
      I have found it's hard to get past ~18Gbps on commodity servers and ~90Gbps on high spec, carefully specced servers. I presume you find the same?
      - michaelt 1y ago
        A twitch 720p stream is only 4 Mbps. 1080p? 6-8 Mbps So if you've got ~18 Gbps of upload bandwidth you're ready for 10,000-20,000 viewers.
        miki123211 1y ago
        With how ubiquitous gigabit symmetric is becoming, I wonder if you could even do P2P nowadays. Assuming a single gigabit symmetric connection could dedicate at most 100mb of upload bandwidth, you'd need one such viewer per each 25 viewers with a worse connection. This feels achievable. You'd have 1 server that broadcasts to at most 10K tier-1 viewers. Tier 2 viewers get 3 tier1 ips for failover, and pre-negotiate a connection with them, e.g. through STUn, to get sub-second failovers in case their primary source quits the stream. A central control plane load balances these. With something like 15s of buffer (acceptable for a gaming stream, not so much for sports, where your neighbors might be watching on satellite and cheer), this feels achievable.
rmoriz 1y ago
Any plans to add multipath/failover-bonding support? e.g. mobile streaming unit connected with several 5G modems. Some people use a modified SRT to send H.265 over multiple links.
- Sean-Der 1y ago
  Absolutely! Some people have modified libwebrtc to do this today, but it wasn't upstreamed. ICE (protocol for networking) supports this today. It just needs to get into the software.
bradly 1y ago
That pr is really great work both technically and interpersonally. A fun read for sure. Great work and thank you for your determination.
xmprt 1y ago
Working in the events broadcasting space, this opens up OBS to being a viable alternative to professional software like vMix. Especially the P2P support and support for broadcasting multiple scenes seem extremely valuable to have.

maxmcd 1y ago

Thanks for all your work Sean! It's been a delight to use your webrtc libs and see your impact across a broad range of technical efforts.

Sean-Der 1y ago
Thank you :) When are you coming back to the WebRTC space, lots more cool stuff you could b doing :) I really loved [0] it's so cool that a user can access a server behind a firewall/NAT without setting up a VPN or having SSH constantly listening. [0] https://github.com/maxmcd/webtty https://github.com/maxmcd/webtty

WhyNotHugo 1y ago

Are there any video players which can play a webrtc stream? Last I checked, VLC and other popular tools still don’t support it.

RedShift1 1y ago
That's impossible, VLC supports everything. If VLC doesn't support it, it doesn't exist.
- byteknight 1y ago
  Amen.
- mey 1y ago
  XAVC HS 4k 10Bit HEVC 4:2:2 on Windows. Plex and ffmpeg, perfectly fine. VLC is not a fan.
- lillecarl 1y ago
  While that might be true I've found mpv more approachable when doing weird inputs
- oskenso 1y ago
  I wish vlc supported usf, 2sf and minigsf
numpad0 1y ago
[1]: gst-launch-1.0 playbin3 uri="gstwebrtc://localhost:8443?peer-id=<webrtcsink-peer-id>" WebRTC is normally used in bidirectional use cases like video chat with text options, so I don't think it so odd that VLC doesn't outright support it. VLC does not support dialing into an Asterisk server, either. [1] https://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/documentation/rswebrtc/webrtcsrc.html https://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/documentation/rswebrtc/web...
mortoc 1y ago
I'd guess VLC will get support for it soon now that ffmpeg supports it.
- Gormo 1y ago
  Possibly, but VLC maintains its own codec libraries and doesn't rely on FFMpeg.
shmerl 1y ago
Should ffplay support it if ffmpeg added support for it in general?
bilekas 1y ago
Maybe I'm wrong but in this case, couldn't you create your own middleware server that could consume the Weber stream feed and then stream out as a regular vlc consumable feed? I'm guessing there will be some transcoding on the fly but that should be trivial..

1oooqooq 1y ago

i was using vnc for remote dosbox gaming on the phone. now i can sink infinite amount of time trying to do a input handler webapp and using this+obs instead! thanks!

athrun 1y ago
I've also been trying (and mostly failing) to build such a setup over the last few weeks. What are you thinking in terms of the overall building blocks to get this to work? I've been struggling to get a proper low-latency screen+audio recording going (on macos) and streaming that over WebRTC. Either the audio gets de-sync, or the streaming latency is too high.
- 1oooqooq 1y ago
  games i plan to play don't care about latency, which solves most of your problems :) but this+obs+a webapp for input+ydotool to pass the input to dosbox. then i can just open a page on the browser on the phone.

monocularvision 1y ago

Your work in this area has been phenomenal. Thank you! I use broadcast-box all the time.

echelon 1y ago
What sort of infrastructure do you need for scaling WebRTC multicast? Are we entering an era where you don't need Amazon's budget to host something like Twitch?
- Sean-Der 1y ago
  Yes we are :) When OBS merges the PR [0] things are going to get very interesting. Before you needed to run expensive transcoding jobs to be able to support heterogenous clients. Once we get Simulcast the only cost will be bandwidth. With Hetzner I am paying $1 a TB. With AV1 or H265 + Simulcast I am getting 4K for hundreds of users on just a single server. We will have some growing pains, but I am not giving up until I can make this accessible to everyone. [0] https://github.com/obsproject/obs-studio/pull/10885 https://github.com/obsproject/obs-studio/pull/10885
  - matt-p 1y ago
    I have found it's hard to get past ~18Gbps on commodity servers and ~90Gbps on high spec, carefully specced servers. I presume you find the same?
    - michaelt 1y ago
      A twitch 720p stream is only 4 Mbps. 1080p? 6-8 Mbps So if you've got ~18 Gbps of upload bandwidth you're ready for 10,000-20,000 viewers.
      - miki123211 1y ago
        With how ubiquitous gigabit symmetric is becoming, I wonder if you could even do P2P nowadays. Assuming a single gigabit symmetric connection could dedicate at most 100mb of upload bandwidth, you'd need one such viewer per each 25 viewers with a worse connection. This feels achievable. You'd have 1 server that broadcasts to at most 10K tier-1 viewers. Tier 2 viewers get 3 tier1 ips for failover, and pre-negotiate a connection with them, e.g. through STUn, to get sub-second failovers in case their primary source quits the stream. A central control plane load balances these. With something like 15s of buffer (acceptable for a gaming stream, not so much for sports, where your neighbors might be watching on satellite and cheer), this feels achievable.

rmoriz 1y ago

Any plans to add multipath/failover-bonding support? e.g. mobile streaming unit connected with several 5G modems. Some people use a modified SRT to send H.265 over multiple links.

Sean-Der 1y ago
Absolutely! Some people have modified libwebrtc to do this today, but it wasn't upstreamed. ICE (protocol for networking) supports this today. It just needs to get into the software.

bradly 1y ago

That pr is really great work both technically and interpersonally. A fun read for sure. Great work and thank you for your determination.

xmprt 1y ago

Working in the events broadcasting space, this opens up OBS to being a viable alternative to professional software like vMix. Especially the P2P support and support for broadcasting multiple scenes seem extremely valuable to have.