3 ms·

==it's not most people's personal choices that determine if plastic ends up in the ocean- it's either incompetence or downright deliberately deceptive actions b

==it's not most people's personal choices that determine if plastic ends up in the ocean- it's either incompetence or downright deliberately deceptive actions by someone else-== It is your personal choice to consume goods packaged in plastic. If you, as a consumer, continue to eat pre-packaged peaches and apple slices rather than just eating apples and peaches, you are consciously adding to the known problem. Blaming "someone else" doesn't change the decision that you, as an autonomous individual, have made. Your stance uses the same logic that people use to excuse their impact on climate change. People who are generating trash (specifically plastic trash) are at fault for worsening the problem of excessive plastic trash, full stop. The same way that burning coal worsens the climate problem. The justification that the problem is so big that individuals can't (or shouldn't) change their behaviors is a coping mechanism. It's borderline nihilistic.

awongh 1y ago
> People who are generating trash (specifically plastic trash) are at fault for worsening the problem of excessive plastic trash, full stop. You can be absolutist about personal moral choices, but writing this reply used precious resources that are destroying the planet, on a device that almost certainly also contributed to pollution and human misery. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be informed and make moral and politically influenced decisions, just that the impact of those choices is probably overstated and people weaponize their choices against others for their own gain. Everyone can individually decide what they can accept, but I don't like it when people say I should buy their thing made out of recycled plastic like it's better for the earth if I do. I don't think that equivalence is obvious if you look at the whole problem.
- supplied_demand 1y ago
  ==You can be absolutist about personal moral choices, but writing this reply used precious resources that are destroying the planet, on a device that almost certainly also contributed to pollution and human misery.== Fortunately, I live in a state with some of the greenest energy sources in the country. Living here is a choice I make. I also made the choice to write my comment and "use" those resources. I own that choice and the consequences. My comment simply suggests that you should own your choices and their consequences, too. ==people weaponize their choices against others for their own gain.== It feels like you are doing a form of this when you dismiss the individual's contributions to global trash issues and outsource the blame to "others." You have gained peace-of-mind by convincing yourself you aren't part of the problem.
ackfoobar 1y ago
> you are consciously adding to the known problem. Blaming "someone else" doesn't change the decision The "known problem" is plastic going to the landfill, which is barely a concern. awongh's original comment mentioned two plastic problems worthy of concern - microplastic and ocean plastic. Neither of that is related to disposable plastic going to the landfill.
- supplied_demand 1y ago
  ==microplastic and ocean plastic. Neither of that is related to disposable plastic going to the landfill.== I think the "known problem" is the consumption of too many products made out of plastic or with plastic packaging which leads to plastic trash. This over-dependence ties directly to the microplastic and ocean plastic problem. According to the WWF [0], there are three main ways that plastic ends up in the ocean: 1. Throwing plastic in the bin when it could be recycled. Plastic you put in the bin ends up in landfill. When rubbish is being transported to landfill, plastic is often blown away because it’s so lightweight. From there, it can eventually clutter around drains and enter rivers and the sea this way. 2. Littering. Litter dropped on the street doesn’t stay there. Rainwater and wind carries plastic waste into streams and rivers, and through drains. Drains lead to the ocean! 3. Products that go down the drain. Many of the products we use daily are flushed down toilets, including wet wipes, cotton buds and sanitary products. Microfibres are even released into waterways when we wash our clothes in the washing machine. [0] https://www.wwf.org.uk/updates/how-does-plastic-end-ocean https://www.wwf.org.uk/updates/how-does-plastic-end-ocean
  - ackfoobar 1y ago
    > Microfibres are even released into waterways when we wash our clothes in the washing machine. Clothing companies often tout how much of their polyester fibre is from recycled sources. It's ironic how plastic recycling being perceived as "good" contributes to the problem.

awongh 1y ago

> People who are generating trash (specifically plastic trash) are at fault for worsening the problem of excessive plastic trash, full stop. You can be absolutist about personal moral choices, but writing this reply used precious resources that are destroying the planet, on a device that almost certainly also contributed to pollution and human misery. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be informed and make moral and politically influenced decisions, just that the impact of those choices is probably overstated and people weaponize their choices against others for their own gain. Everyone can individually decide what they can accept, but I don't like it when people say I should buy their thing made out of recycled plastic like it's better for the earth if I do. I don't think that equivalence is obvious if you look at the whole problem.

supplied_demand 1y ago
==You can be absolutist about personal moral choices, but writing this reply used precious resources that are destroying the planet, on a device that almost certainly also contributed to pollution and human misery.== Fortunately, I live in a state with some of the greenest energy sources in the country. Living here is a choice I make. I also made the choice to write my comment and "use" those resources. I own that choice and the consequences. My comment simply suggests that you should own your choices and their consequences, too. ==people weaponize their choices against others for their own gain.== It feels like you are doing a form of this when you dismiss the individual's contributions to global trash issues and outsource the blame to "others." You have gained peace-of-mind by convincing yourself you aren't part of the problem.

ackfoobar 1y ago

> you are consciously adding to the known problem. Blaming "someone else" doesn't change the decision The "known problem" is plastic going to the landfill, which is barely a concern. awongh's original comment mentioned two plastic problems worthy of concern - microplastic and ocean plastic. Neither of that is related to disposable plastic going to the landfill.

supplied_demand 1y ago
==microplastic and ocean plastic. Neither of that is related to disposable plastic going to the landfill.== I think the "known problem" is the consumption of too many products made out of plastic or with plastic packaging which leads to plastic trash. This over-dependence ties directly to the microplastic and ocean plastic problem. According to the WWF [0], there are three main ways that plastic ends up in the ocean: 1. Throwing plastic in the bin when it could be recycled. Plastic you put in the bin ends up in landfill. When rubbish is being transported to landfill, plastic is often blown away because it’s so lightweight. From there, it can eventually clutter around drains and enter rivers and the sea this way. 2. Littering. Litter dropped on the street doesn’t stay there. Rainwater and wind carries plastic waste into streams and rivers, and through drains. Drains lead to the ocean! 3. Products that go down the drain. Many of the products we use daily are flushed down toilets, including wet wipes, cotton buds and sanitary products. Microfibres are even released into waterways when we wash our clothes in the washing machine. [0] https://www.wwf.org.uk/updates/how-does-plastic-end-ocean https://www.wwf.org.uk/updates/how-does-plastic-end-ocean
- ackfoobar 1y ago
  > Microfibres are even released into waterways when we wash our clothes in the washing machine. Clothing companies often tout how much of their polyester fibre is from recycled sources. It's ironic how plastic recycling being perceived as "good" contributes to the problem.