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If you have children you can help continue a chain of humans millions or maybe even billions of years long.

anonzzzies 1y ago
Why would I want to? But let's say I want to, we have been here for a few 1000 years and our trackrecord is absolutely horrifying. We kill people not even to eat but for some religious madness... You really believe your offspring will live in a billion years?
- xyzzy9563 1y ago
  Sure, it's a pretty high chance they will go into space. If they use energy storage it could even be trillions of years. It really depends if humanity self-destructs or not. Also different animals kill each other all the time. It's part of the cycle of life. I don't get why you have such a negative perspective.
  - anonzzzies 1y ago
    So, Musk then... The guy who, well, seems literally insane. Yeah, good one.
    - dustbunny 1y ago
      This is called Black and White thinking in therapy
  - anonzzzies 1y ago
    Animals are animals, you seem to think we are above that. If we agree we are not then we agree. But we won't make it very long.
    - xyzzy9563 1y ago
      People are a more intelligent type of animal but still animals.
  - anonzzzies 1y ago
    It is not negative, its indifferent, it won't matter, to anyone or anything. As I said, I perceive that as nice.
jebarker 1y ago
Sometimes when I'm struggling with the day to day mundane aspects of early years parenting I reframe it as the work of continuing the human race. Somehow makes it easier to keep pushing on as something so significant _should_ be challenging.
- hshshshshsh 1y ago
  That's just your ego talking. The human race will be just fine with or without you raising kids. Our great great ancestor monkeys and fishes didn't raise their children to push their species to centuries further. They just existed and it's what they do as part of their nature. Trying to project meaning to it just ego at play.
  - ty6853 1y ago
    No they won't. The human race will literally put you in a tiny cage if you don't raise kids how they approve. It makes them seethe, rage, and their skin boil, they do not feel at all fine and they have invented entire apparatus to make sure people who do not raise children as they approve are punished harshly.
  - jebarker 1y ago
    Actually, in a rare exception this isn't my ego for once. I'm well aware my specific kids don't have any special cosmic significance or even just special significance to the human race. However, continuing humanity does seem at least an interesting thing to do and it's a collective effort. It's also best entered into consciously as a human since you can have far more impact on other humans and animals than a fish can. It's also definitely challenging to raise kids, so it's real work I'm doing. Thinking about continuing humanity is a coping strategy and I can assure you it's more effective than HN rationality when my kid is screaming about their cheerios etc
  - gchamonlive 1y ago
    Trying desperately not to project meaning into it, running from your ego... is still just the ego talking, but now through the denial of it, such is the fundamental nature of the ego for the human. True overcoming of the ego is where it doesn't even bother you if things have meaning or not, since there is no separation between your body and the rest of the world. True overcoming of ego is indistriguishable from true giving-in to ego. Is the ultimate act of letting go. After this you can choose to raise kids, choose to pursue a career in tech and a hobby in arts. Just because it won't matter you will do it, because now you can choose meaning if you wish. Just because it doesn't matter it does matter. You become the creator.
jajko 1y ago
Children are great under normal circumstances, its spouses and living with them 24/7 who create friction which easily dissolve even best relationships, one atom at a time. Many reasons for that, but most I've seen could be summed up as "women expect men to change in marriage, and men expect women to not change", and it fails all over that statement in relationship over time, when kids and responsibilities come knocking at the door of your free time and energy.
Conscat 1y ago
I will be childfree, so will my sister. Both of us are queer. As far as I know, all my three cousins (two of whom are queer) feel the same. There's no reason to expect that your children will want to reproduce, and it is pretty selfish to project your own dissatisfaction with life onto another human that way.
- xyzzy9563 1y ago
  If someone cares more about themselves than continuing their family line or the human species, it’s arguably more selfish.
  - rfrey 1y ago
    Why should somebody consider their own "family line" special? That seems pretty arbitrary - perhaps hardwired in some way but not in any sense a moral imperative. When there's an imminent danger of the human species ending because of a lack of babies, we can talk about the other point.
    - hshshshshsh 1y ago
      Family like any other material possessions is just another building block for the ego. Trying to believe you own something or is something when nothing is permanent and everything is part of everything else.
  - mikestew 1y ago
    …continuing their family line… I’m not Henry VIII, just some rube from Indiana. Our family is nothing special. …or the human species Nor is this some post-apocalyptic future where children are scarce.
    - BadCookie 1y ago
      Children kind of are scarce, though? Most countries aren’t reproducing at replacement levels. Were that to continue forever, the human population would go to zero. School districts around me are closing schools because there aren’t enough kids to fill them.
hshshshshsh 1y ago
That's a long chain of suffering you are creating. What do you do with that length?

Why would I want to? But let's say I want to, we have been here for a few 1000 years and our trackrecord is absolutely horrifying. We kill people not even to eat but for some religious madness... You really believe your offspring will live in a billion years?

xyzzy9563 1y ago
Sure, it's a pretty high chance they will go into space. If they use energy storage it could even be trillions of years. It really depends if humanity self-destructs or not. Also different animals kill each other all the time. It's part of the cycle of life. I don't get why you have such a negative perspective.
- anonzzzies 1y ago
  So, Musk then... The guy who, well, seems literally insane. Yeah, good one.
  - dustbunny 1y ago
    This is called Black and White thinking in therapy
- anonzzzies 1y ago
  Animals are animals, you seem to think we are above that. If we agree we are not then we agree. But we won't make it very long.
  - xyzzy9563 1y ago
    People are a more intelligent type of animal but still animals.
- anonzzzies 1y ago
  It is not negative, its indifferent, it won't matter, to anyone or anything. As I said, I perceive that as nice.

jebarker 1y ago

Sometimes when I'm struggling with the day to day mundane aspects of early years parenting I reframe it as the work of continuing the human race. Somehow makes it easier to keep pushing on as something so significant _should_ be challenging.

hshshshshsh 1y ago
That's just your ego talking. The human race will be just fine with or without you raising kids. Our great great ancestor monkeys and fishes didn't raise their children to push their species to centuries further. They just existed and it's what they do as part of their nature. Trying to project meaning to it just ego at play.
- ty6853 1y ago
  No they won't. The human race will literally put you in a tiny cage if you don't raise kids how they approve. It makes them seethe, rage, and their skin boil, they do not feel at all fine and they have invented entire apparatus to make sure people who do not raise children as they approve are punished harshly.
- jebarker 1y ago
  Actually, in a rare exception this isn't my ego for once. I'm well aware my specific kids don't have any special cosmic significance or even just special significance to the human race. However, continuing humanity does seem at least an interesting thing to do and it's a collective effort. It's also best entered into consciously as a human since you can have far more impact on other humans and animals than a fish can. It's also definitely challenging to raise kids, so it's real work I'm doing. Thinking about continuing humanity is a coping strategy and I can assure you it's more effective than HN rationality when my kid is screaming about their cheerios etc
- gchamonlive 1y ago
  Trying desperately not to project meaning into it, running from your ego... is still just the ego talking, but now through the denial of it, such is the fundamental nature of the ego for the human. True overcoming of the ego is where it doesn't even bother you if things have meaning or not, since there is no separation between your body and the rest of the world. True overcoming of ego is indistriguishable from true giving-in to ego. Is the ultimate act of letting go. After this you can choose to raise kids, choose to pursue a career in tech and a hobby in arts. Just because it won't matter you will do it, because now you can choose meaning if you wish. Just because it doesn't matter it does matter. You become the creator.

jajko 1y ago

Children are great under normal circumstances, its spouses and living with them 24/7 who create friction which easily dissolve even best relationships, one atom at a time. Many reasons for that, but most I've seen could be summed up as "women expect men to change in marriage, and men expect women to not change", and it fails all over that statement in relationship over time, when kids and responsibilities come knocking at the door of your free time and energy.

Conscat 1y ago

I will be childfree, so will my sister. Both of us are queer. As far as I know, all my three cousins (two of whom are queer) feel the same. There's no reason to expect that your children will want to reproduce, and it is pretty selfish to project your own dissatisfaction with life onto another human that way.

xyzzy9563 1y ago
If someone cares more about themselves than continuing their family line or the human species, it’s arguably more selfish.
- rfrey 1y ago
  Why should somebody consider their own "family line" special? That seems pretty arbitrary - perhaps hardwired in some way but not in any sense a moral imperative. When there's an imminent danger of the human species ending because of a lack of babies, we can talk about the other point.
  - hshshshshsh 1y ago
    Family like any other material possessions is just another building block for the ego. Trying to believe you own something or is something when nothing is permanent and everything is part of everything else.
- mikestew 1y ago
  …continuing their family line… I’m not Henry VIII, just some rube from Indiana. Our family is nothing special. …or the human species Nor is this some post-apocalyptic future where children are scarce.
  - BadCookie 1y ago
    Children kind of are scarce, though? Most countries aren’t reproducing at replacement levels. Were that to continue forever, the human population would go to zero. School districts around me are closing schools because there aren’t enough kids to fill them.

hshshshshsh 1y ago

That's a long chain of suffering you are creating. What do you do with that length?