3 ms·

Last I read, the evidence that fasting is beneficial beyond the caloric restriction is controversial at best. I would like to see you back up the claim with str

by aydyn 1y ago

Last I read, the evidence that fasting is beneficial beyond the caloric restriction is controversial at best. I would like to see you back up the claim with strong evidence. > A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Randomized Clinical Trials >"despite these short-term benefits, FBS did not show superior long-term outcomes compared to CCR." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39458528/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39458528/

_Algernon_ 1y ago
From the same article abstract: >However, [fasting-based strategies] improved insulin sensitivity, with significant reductions in fasting insulin (-7.46 pmol/L, p = 0.02) and HOMA-IR (-0.14, p = 0.02)
- aydyn 1y ago
  You can expect different modes between fasting and caloric restriction. You might even consider one mode "better", but what is missing is any evidence that it leads to difference in outcomes.
  - _Algernon_ 1y ago
    For a healthy individual it might not make a difference, but increased insulin sensitivity may help in (pre-)diabetics for instance. >Studies have shown intermittent energy restriction to be efficacious in preventing and managing prediabetes and DM, with remarkable improvements in the metabolic and cardiovascular biomarkers of individuals with DM. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9534344/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9534344/
lm28469 1y ago
Losing weight is only a bonus for me, you could lose weight by following a diet that exclusively consists of eating a cube of sugar every XX minutes if you wanted to. Where fasting shines is that it helps control hunger and energy levels. A normal person in the west is basically always in a fed state (bf, lunch, snack, dinner) to the point it's hard for most people to differentiate thirst from hunger from boredom.
- jvanderbot 1y ago
  I noticed this right away when I was fasting occasionally. I couldn't remember the last time I felt hungry! And after a bit, it was easy to differentiate "Primed to eat" from "Actually hungry", as well. We're creatures of habit.
  - xeromal 1y ago
    Part of the reason I do ramadan as a non-muslim. There's something powerful in restricting your flesh for a period of time every year to reset things.
- aydyn 1y ago
  That is fair, there's a mental component that is hard to measure. For me, eliminating carbs from meals was much easier than fasting.
al_borland 1y ago
From what I’ve read fasting is more of an intervention for metabolic issues, helping to reduce insulin levels more dramatically. The study you linked to seems to support this. > However, FBS improved insulin sensitivity, with significant reductions in fasting insulin The issue, and why I think we’ve seen several high profile fasting advocates stop, is because they weren’t metabolically unhealthy, but were on extreme fasting protocols as if they were. The way I read it, if you’re significantly overweight and have high insulin levels (type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes), fasting can help get things under control quickly. However, once a person has regained metabolic flexibility and health, moving to something more balanced is likely a good idea. Just avoiding going back to a lifestyle that leads to chronically high insulin levels. Some amount of fasting probably makes sense, as has been practiced by most major religions in some form for thousands of years, but not to the same extreme as during the intervention.
- jvanderbot 1y ago
  There's entire books about this, and how insulin resistance / insulin "overdoses" are implicated in most metabolic disorders and obesity (above and beyond CI/CO energetics) and how Alzheimers is kind of just type 3 diabetes. Try Outlive (very good) and Obesity Code (not bad so far - I'm 3 chapters in).
commandlinefan 1y ago
I've seen conflicting evidence that fasting triggers autophagy as well - I've seen some that suggest that it starts after just 18 hours and some that you'd have to fast for a week before you'd actually see autophagy kick in.

by aydyn 1y ago

_Algernon_ 1y ago

From the same article abstract: >However, [fasting-based strategies] improved insulin sensitivity, with significant reductions in fasting insulin (-7.46 pmol/L, p = 0.02) and HOMA-IR (-0.14, p = 0.02)

aydyn 1y ago
You can expect different modes between fasting and caloric restriction. You might even consider one mode "better", but what is missing is any evidence that it leads to difference in outcomes.
- _Algernon_ 1y ago
  For a healthy individual it might not make a difference, but increased insulin sensitivity may help in (pre-)diabetics for instance. >Studies have shown intermittent energy restriction to be efficacious in preventing and managing prediabetes and DM, with remarkable improvements in the metabolic and cardiovascular biomarkers of individuals with DM. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9534344/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9534344/

lm28469 1y ago

Losing weight is only a bonus for me, you could lose weight by following a diet that exclusively consists of eating a cube of sugar every XX minutes if you wanted to. Where fasting shines is that it helps control hunger and energy levels. A normal person in the west is basically always in a fed state (bf, lunch, snack, dinner) to the point it's hard for most people to differentiate thirst from hunger from boredom.

jvanderbot 1y ago
I noticed this right away when I was fasting occasionally. I couldn't remember the last time I felt hungry! And after a bit, it was easy to differentiate "Primed to eat" from "Actually hungry", as well. We're creatures of habit.
- xeromal 1y ago
  Part of the reason I do ramadan as a non-muslim. There's something powerful in restricting your flesh for a period of time every year to reset things.
aydyn 1y ago
That is fair, there's a mental component that is hard to measure. For me, eliminating carbs from meals was much easier than fasting.

al_borland 1y ago

From what I’ve read fasting is more of an intervention for metabolic issues, helping to reduce insulin levels more dramatically. The study you linked to seems to support this. > However, FBS improved insulin sensitivity, with significant reductions in fasting insulin The issue, and why I think we’ve seen several high profile fasting advocates stop, is because they weren’t metabolically unhealthy, but were on extreme fasting protocols as if they were. The way I read it, if you’re significantly overweight and have high insulin levels (type 2 diabetes or pre-diabetes), fasting can help get things under control quickly. However, once a person has regained metabolic flexibility and health, moving to something more balanced is likely a good idea. Just avoiding going back to a lifestyle that leads to chronically high insulin levels. Some amount of fasting probably makes sense, as has been practiced by most major religions in some form for thousands of years, but not to the same extreme as during the intervention.

jvanderbot 1y ago
There's entire books about this, and how insulin resistance / insulin "overdoses" are implicated in most metabolic disorders and obesity (above and beyond CI/CO energetics) and how Alzheimers is kind of just type 3 diabetes. Try Outlive (very good) and Obesity Code (not bad so far - I'm 3 chapters in).

commandlinefan 1y ago

I've seen conflicting evidence that fasting triggers autophagy as well - I've seen some that suggest that it starts after just 18 hours and some that you'd have to fast for a week before you'd actually see autophagy kick in.