5 ms·

I really hate this trend for describing anything somewhat intellectual as 'autistic'.

by polshaw 14y ago

lutusp 14y ago
Yes, but psychologists love it -- it's bread on their table. Anyone sufficiently to the right of the mean I.Q. can be diagnosed on the autism spectrum, and be put into pointless therapy.
- alanctgardner 14y ago
  I don't really understand this view of therapy. In my experience, it's something you choose for yourself, because you recognize the need. The odds that you receive a psychiatric evaluation against your will and be compelled into therapy are amazingly slim. Especially for something like 'autism-spectrum' disorders, where the majority of sufferers appear to be high-functioning.
  - lutusp 14y ago
    > I don't really understand this view of therapy. In my experience, it's something you choose for yourself, because you recognize the need. That would be nice, but it doesn't reflect reality. In schools, children are frequently given autism spectrum diagnoses against their better interests, or wishes, or the wishes of their parents (but not always -- sometimes parents force these things on their children). But the patient's wishes are often the lowest priority. Ideally, people would volunteer for therapy solely on issues they choose for themselves. But this isn't how clinical psychology works in modern times. Schools have a vested interest in getting diagnoses, because special-education funds are only available for those with a diagnosis. The reason Asperger's is being abandoned is because it was applied in exactly the way described above, until everyone realized it was a scam -- even the therapists who benefited the most. Now it's slated for removal from the next edition of the DSM, and further, the diagnosis criteria for autism spectrum is being reworked to prevent another epidemic of nonsense diagnoses such as we have just seen. > The odds that you receive a psychiatric evaluation against your will and be compelled into therapy are amazingly slim. On the contrary, it's an everyday occurrence, especially among children, who aren't mature enough to realize that psychologists aren't doctors. > Especially for something like 'autism-spectrum' disorders, where the majority of sufferers appear to be high-functioning. Yes, and that is the present problem area -- bogus diagnoses, using vague criteria that can be applied to nearly anyone, with obvious advantages to everyone except the patient. Mental health professionals, aware that autism spectrum diagnoses are out of control and no longer have any connection to reality, have joined an American Psychological Association task force charged with redefining ASD to stem the tide of nonsense diagnoses. One of those behind the redefinition effort (Dr. Fred Volkmar, director of the Child Study Center at the Yale School of Medicine) says of the diagnosis surge, "We would nip it in the bud."
    - charlieflowers 14y ago
      "... Asperger's is being abandoned.... Now it's slated for removal from the next edition of the DSM" REALLY??! Wow. I sure thought I was seeing a bunch of misguided hullabaloo, but I'm surprised to see the "industry" itself is aware of it and addressing it. Do you have a link or any kind of substantiation?
      - lutusp 14y ago
        > Do you have a link or any kind of substantiation? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health/03asperger.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health/03asperger.html?pag... The above is just one of the many links to this topic -- here's another: http://www.npr.org/2010/12/29/132407384/whats-a-mental-disorder-even-experts-cant-agree http://www.npr.org/2010/12/29/132407384/whats-a-mental-disor... It's important to say that DSM-V (the new edition of the diagnostic manual) is being compiled in secret, contrary to the open nature of science, and demonstrating that the psychological community are circling the wagons against what is certain to be a storm of criticism once it's published (slated for May 2013). One of the tidbits that has slipped out of the secret process is that grief over the loss of a loved one will qualify for a depression diagnosis, which will allow the prescribing of drugs to treat this new "mental illness." Further reading: http://arachnoid.com/trouble_with_psychology http://arachnoid.com/trouble_with_psychology
      - polshaw 14y ago
        >Asperger’s syndrome... will be folded into a single broad diagnosis, autism spectrum disorder ^ FTA quoted as a source. It's not going anywhere, just re-labelling. There are definitely things behind AS, it's certainly not all just 'hullabaloo', even if a lot of cases might be.
        lutusp 14y ago
        > It's not going anywhere, just re-labelling. Not really. Two things are happening: 1. Asperger's is being dropped as a diagnosis. 2. ASD diagnostic criteria are being redefined with the specific aim of reducing the number of diagnoses, to avoid another epidemic of nonsense treatments of people who, apart from being intelligent, are otherwise normal. Further reading: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/health/research/new-autism-definition-would-exclude-many-study-suggests.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/health/research/new-autism... > There are definitely things behind AS ... Yes, there certainly are. It's a gold mine for clinical psychology, because anyone to the right of the mean population I.Q. can be diagnosed using the present criteria, and because of this kind of abuse, it's being abandoned -- it's just too tempting to apply it to everyone. As one of its prominent critics has said, "It's not an evidence-based term."
- philwelch 14y ago
  Didn't realize I'd ended up on Conspiracy Theory News.
  - lutusp 14y ago
    What? Psychologists have acknowledged what I said -- I didn't make it up. Psychologists now see that the Asperger's diagnosis epidemic had no basis in reality -- that's why Asperger's is being abandoned. Further reading: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health/03asperger.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health/03asperger.html?pag...
    - philwelch 14y ago
      It's effectively being reclassified as a form of autism, which is what neurologists have been calling it for years now. You're being incoherent--why on earth would psychologists "abandon" a diagnosis that they "love" because it's "bread on their table"? On second thought, don't bother answering--I already waste too much time jousting with conspiracy theorists on HN.
      - lutusp 14y ago
        > It's effectively being reclassified as a form of autism That's like saying astrology is being reclassified as a form of astronomy. Something like that happened, but we all know the outcome of that battle. > why on earth would psychologists "abandon" a diagnosis that they "love" because it's "bread on their table"? Because of public exposure. Because of articles like this one: http://arachnoid.com/trouble_with_psychology http://arachnoid.com/trouble_with_psychology Psychologists realized their behavior was obviously and solely self-serving, even to non-specialists. So, just as with Recovered Memory Therapy, they called a halt to something that could only do them more harm. > I already waste too much time jousting with conspiracy theorists on HN. That only makes sense if psychologists are the conspiracy theorists, because it is psychologists who are demanding this change. Case in point -- Theodore Insel, sitting director of the NIMH, calls for the same change that I do: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=faulty-circuits http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=faulty-circ... Quote: "In most areas of medicine, doctors have historically tried to glean something about the underlying cause of a patient’s illness before figuring out a treatment that addresses the source of the problem. When it came to mental or behavioral disorders in the past, however, no physical cause was detectable so the problem was long assumed by doctors to be solely “mental,” and psychological therapies followed suit. Today scientific approaches based on modern biology, neuroscience and genomics are replacing nearly a century of purely psychological theories, yielding new approaches to the treatment of mental illnesses." Sound familiar?
ktizo 14y ago
Wasn't meaning it as intellectual, was more meaning it in as obsessed with pattern and order.

I really hate this trend for describing anything somewhat intellectual as 'autistic'.

by polshaw 14y ago

I really hate this trend for describing anything somewhat intellectual as 'autistic'.

Yes, but psychologists love it -- it's bread on their table. Anyone sufficiently to the right of the mean I.Q. can be diagnosed on the autism spectrum, and be put into pointless therapy.

alanctgardner 14y ago
I don't really understand this view of therapy. In my experience, it's something you choose for yourself, because you recognize the need. The odds that you receive a psychiatric evaluation against your will and be compelled into therapy are amazingly slim. Especially for something like 'autism-spectrum' disorders, where the majority of sufferers appear to be high-functioning.
- lutusp 14y ago
  > I don't really understand this view of therapy. In my experience, it's something you choose for yourself, because you recognize the need. That would be nice, but it doesn't reflect reality. In schools, children are frequently given autism spectrum diagnoses against their better interests, or wishes, or the wishes of their parents (but not always -- sometimes parents force these things on their children). But the patient's wishes are often the lowest priority. Ideally, people would volunteer for therapy solely on issues they choose for themselves. But this isn't how clinical psychology works in modern times. Schools have a vested interest in getting diagnoses, because special-education funds are only available for those with a diagnosis. The reason Asperger's is being abandoned is because it was applied in exactly the way described above, until everyone realized it was a scam -- even the therapists who benefited the most. Now it's slated for removal from the next edition of the DSM, and further, the diagnosis criteria for autism spectrum is being reworked to prevent another epidemic of nonsense diagnoses such as we have just seen. > The odds that you receive a psychiatric evaluation against your will and be compelled into therapy are amazingly slim. On the contrary, it's an everyday occurrence, especially among children, who aren't mature enough to realize that psychologists aren't doctors. > Especially for something like 'autism-spectrum' disorders, where the majority of sufferers appear to be high-functioning. Yes, and that is the present problem area -- bogus diagnoses, using vague criteria that can be applied to nearly anyone, with obvious advantages to everyone except the patient. Mental health professionals, aware that autism spectrum diagnoses are out of control and no longer have any connection to reality, have joined an American Psychological Association task force charged with redefining ASD to stem the tide of nonsense diagnoses. One of those behind the redefinition effort (Dr. Fred Volkmar, director of the Child Study Center at the Yale School of Medicine) says of the diagnosis surge, "We would nip it in the bud."
  - charlieflowers 14y ago
    "... Asperger's is being abandoned.... Now it's slated for removal from the next edition of the DSM" REALLY??! Wow. I sure thought I was seeing a bunch of misguided hullabaloo, but I'm surprised to see the "industry" itself is aware of it and addressing it. Do you have a link or any kind of substantiation?
    - lutusp 14y ago
      > Do you have a link or any kind of substantiation? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health/03asperger.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health/03asperger.html?pag... The above is just one of the many links to this topic -- here's another: http://www.npr.org/2010/12/29/132407384/whats-a-mental-disorder-even-experts-cant-agree http://www.npr.org/2010/12/29/132407384/whats-a-mental-disor... It's important to say that DSM-V (the new edition of the diagnostic manual) is being compiled in secret, contrary to the open nature of science, and demonstrating that the psychological community are circling the wagons against what is certain to be a storm of criticism once it's published (slated for May 2013). One of the tidbits that has slipped out of the secret process is that grief over the loss of a loved one will qualify for a depression diagnosis, which will allow the prescribing of drugs to treat this new "mental illness." Further reading: http://arachnoid.com/trouble_with_psychology http://arachnoid.com/trouble_with_psychology
    - polshaw 14y ago
      >Asperger’s syndrome... will be folded into a single broad diagnosis, autism spectrum disorder ^ FTA quoted as a source. It's not going anywhere, just re-labelling. There are definitely things behind AS, it's certainly not all just 'hullabaloo', even if a lot of cases might be.
      - lutusp 14y ago
        > It's not going anywhere, just re-labelling. Not really. Two things are happening: 1. Asperger's is being dropped as a diagnosis. 2. ASD diagnostic criteria are being redefined with the specific aim of reducing the number of diagnoses, to avoid another epidemic of nonsense treatments of people who, apart from being intelligent, are otherwise normal. Further reading: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/health/research/new-autism-definition-would-exclude-many-study-suggests.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/health/research/new-autism... > There are definitely things behind AS ... Yes, there certainly are. It's a gold mine for clinical psychology, because anyone to the right of the mean population I.Q. can be diagnosed using the present criteria, and because of this kind of abuse, it's being abandoned -- it's just too tempting to apply it to everyone. As one of its prominent critics has said, "It's not an evidence-based term."
philwelch 14y ago
Didn't realize I'd ended up on Conspiracy Theory News.
- lutusp 14y ago
  What? Psychologists have acknowledged what I said -- I didn't make it up. Psychologists now see that the Asperger's diagnosis epidemic had no basis in reality -- that's why Asperger's is being abandoned. Further reading: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health/03asperger.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/health/03asperger.html?pag...
  - philwelch 14y ago
    It's effectively being reclassified as a form of autism, which is what neurologists have been calling it for years now. You're being incoherent--why on earth would psychologists "abandon" a diagnosis that they "love" because it's "bread on their table"? On second thought, don't bother answering--I already waste too much time jousting with conspiracy theorists on HN.
    - lutusp 14y ago
      > It's effectively being reclassified as a form of autism That's like saying astrology is being reclassified as a form of astronomy. Something like that happened, but we all know the outcome of that battle. > why on earth would psychologists "abandon" a diagnosis that they "love" because it's "bread on their table"? Because of public exposure. Because of articles like this one: http://arachnoid.com/trouble_with_psychology http://arachnoid.com/trouble_with_psychology Psychologists realized their behavior was obviously and solely self-serving, even to non-specialists. So, just as with Recovered Memory Therapy, they called a halt to something that could only do them more harm. > I already waste too much time jousting with conspiracy theorists on HN. That only makes sense if psychologists are the conspiracy theorists, because it is psychologists who are demanding this change. Case in point -- Theodore Insel, sitting director of the NIMH, calls for the same change that I do: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=faulty-circuits http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=faulty-circ... Quote: "In most areas of medicine, doctors have historically tried to glean something about the underlying cause of a patient’s illness before figuring out a treatment that addresses the source of the problem. When it came to mental or behavioral disorders in the past, however, no physical cause was detectable so the problem was long assumed by doctors to be solely “mental,” and psychological therapies followed suit. Today scientific approaches based on modern biology, neuroscience and genomics are replacing nearly a century of purely psychological theories, yielding new approaches to the treatment of mental illnesses." Sound familiar?

ktizo 14y ago

Wasn't meaning it as intellectual, was more meaning it in as obsessed with pattern and order.