4 ms·

why salty water? does milk/cream in coffee make it not fasting?

by random3 1y ago

eptcyka 1y ago
Anything that kicks off your metabolism will make it not fasting.
- random3 1y ago
  Isn’t a caloric deficit implicitly fasting though? Guessing there’s number of calories / time formula there.
  - zargon 1y ago
    Any time you eat calories, you're not fasting.
    - tossandthrow 1y ago
      In some paradigms they consider it fasting up to 300kcals a day. In some paradigms you are not even allowed to drink water and call it fasting. The word fast means multiple things.
    - Bender 1y ago
      That is certainly the purist view. I just came off a 3 day fast and in that time I had some Benfotiamine, B-50 complex and Magnesium. Despite having zero calories and zero insulin impact they do have an impact on the bodies metabolism so a purist would also say I broke my fast but I reject that reality. Some of the times that I have fasted longer 5 to 7 days I also had Krill Oil (5 calories) and that also would break the fast according to purists. 5 calories are not going to shut off fat burning when I am in a 2700+ calorie/day deficit by BMR. When I actually break my fast I can feel the changes in the gut, mood, Ghrelin production, etc... Admittedly I am basing this entirely on a gut feeling. Either way my end goals are accomplished burning some fat, improving my overall feeling of wellness, improving my sleep, improving my vision so it works for me.
- 3abiton 1y ago
  > Anything that kicks off your metabolism will make it not fasting. That's the key part. Black coffee is key. I also sometimes go with tea or fruit infused water.
  - wyclif 1y ago
    What kind of salt to water ratio do you use, just out of curiosity because I've been doing intermittent fasting for a while now.
    - 3abiton 1y ago
      I don't really measure it as I tune by taste these days. I usually soak a piece of lime/lemon overnight, and sometimes I add ginger or cumumber and a generous sprinkle of salt to a big water jar. I tried some of the other minerals additives, but really didn't feel lots of added value, so defaulted to pure salt.
- aydyn 1y ago
  Last I read, the evidence that fasting is beneficial beyond the caloric restriction is controversial at best. I would like to see you back up the claim with strong evidence. > A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Randomized Clinical Trials >"despite these short-term benefits, FBS did not show superior long-term outcomes compared to CCR." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39458528/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39458528/
  - _Algernon_ 1y ago
    From the same article abstract: >However, [fasting-based strategies] improved insulin sensitivity, with significant reductions in fasting insulin (-7.46 pmol/L, p = 0.02) and HOMA-IR (-0.14, p = 0.02)
    - aydyn 1y ago
      You can expect different modes between fasting and caloric restriction. You might even consider one mode "better", but what is missing is any evidence that it leads to difference in outcomes.
      - _Algernon_ 1y ago
        For a healthy individual it might not make a difference, but increased insulin sensitivity may help in (pre-)diabetics for instance. >Studies have shown intermittent energy restriction to be efficacious in preventing and managing prediabetes and DM, with remarkable improvements in the metabolic and cardiovascular biomarkers of individuals with DM. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9534344/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9534344/
  - lm28469 1y ago
    Losing weight is only a bonus for me, you could lose weight by following a diet that exclusively consists of eating a cube of sugar every XX minutes if you wanted to. Where fasting shines is that it helps control hunger and energy levels. A normal person in the west is basically always in a fed state (bf, lunch, snack, dinner) to the point it's hard for most people to differentiate thirst from hunger from boredom.
XorNot 1y ago
The milk in coffee is a pretty substantial number of calories, particularly if you have a programmer coffee habit.
mistrial9 1y ago
> does milk/cream in coffee make it not fasting almost certainly yes, that breaks the fasting .. milk specifically is fed by mothers to their young to gain weight a.k.a. not fasting
- markus_zhang 1y ago
  Wondering is there anything else I can put into coffee without breaking the fast? Thanks.
  - _0ffh 1y ago
    It seems like some people regard small amounts of fat to be allowable, specifically a bit of coconut oil in your coffee. At least it won't break the fasting of the carb processing machinery, so it shouldn't prevent you from going into ketosis.
    - markus_zhang 1y ago
      Thanks! I will try out coconut oil later.
      - _0ffh 1y ago
        You're welcome! Just keep in mind there's not much research about how this may change metabolism compared to a strict fast. It may reduce any desired autophagy effects, which are unfortunately not very well-studied in the first place, but it may just es well increase them! I've seen both POVs argued in various articles. The only actual scientific study I can find (1) does show some interesting effects on various metabolic markers, though (in rats). 1. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38401196/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38401196/

why salty water? does milk/cream in coffee make it not fasting?

eptcyka 1y ago

Anything that kicks off your metabolism will make it not fasting.

random3 1y ago
Isn’t a caloric deficit implicitly fasting though? Guessing there’s number of calories / time formula there.
- zargon 1y ago
  Any time you eat calories, you're not fasting.
  - tossandthrow 1y ago
    In some paradigms they consider it fasting up to 300kcals a day. In some paradigms you are not even allowed to drink water and call it fasting. The word fast means multiple things.
  - Bender 1y ago
    That is certainly the purist view. I just came off a 3 day fast and in that time I had some Benfotiamine, B-50 complex and Magnesium. Despite having zero calories and zero insulin impact they do have an impact on the bodies metabolism so a purist would also say I broke my fast but I reject that reality. Some of the times that I have fasted longer 5 to 7 days I also had Krill Oil (5 calories) and that also would break the fast according to purists. 5 calories are not going to shut off fat burning when I am in a 2700+ calorie/day deficit by BMR. When I actually break my fast I can feel the changes in the gut, mood, Ghrelin production, etc... Admittedly I am basing this entirely on a gut feeling. Either way my end goals are accomplished burning some fat, improving my overall feeling of wellness, improving my sleep, improving my vision so it works for me.
3abiton 1y ago
> Anything that kicks off your metabolism will make it not fasting. That's the key part. Black coffee is key. I also sometimes go with tea or fruit infused water.
- wyclif 1y ago
  What kind of salt to water ratio do you use, just out of curiosity because I've been doing intermittent fasting for a while now.
  - 3abiton 1y ago
    I don't really measure it as I tune by taste these days. I usually soak a piece of lime/lemon overnight, and sometimes I add ginger or cumumber and a generous sprinkle of salt to a big water jar. I tried some of the other minerals additives, but really didn't feel lots of added value, so defaulted to pure salt.
aydyn 1y ago
Last I read, the evidence that fasting is beneficial beyond the caloric restriction is controversial at best. I would like to see you back up the claim with strong evidence. > A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Randomized Clinical Trials >"despite these short-term benefits, FBS did not show superior long-term outcomes compared to CCR." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39458528/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39458528/
- _Algernon_ 1y ago
  From the same article abstract: >However, [fasting-based strategies] improved insulin sensitivity, with significant reductions in fasting insulin (-7.46 pmol/L, p = 0.02) and HOMA-IR (-0.14, p = 0.02)
  - aydyn 1y ago
    You can expect different modes between fasting and caloric restriction. You might even consider one mode "better", but what is missing is any evidence that it leads to difference in outcomes.
    - _Algernon_ 1y ago
      For a healthy individual it might not make a difference, but increased insulin sensitivity may help in (pre-)diabetics for instance. >Studies have shown intermittent energy restriction to be efficacious in preventing and managing prediabetes and DM, with remarkable improvements in the metabolic and cardiovascular biomarkers of individuals with DM. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9534344/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9534344/
- lm28469 1y ago
  Losing weight is only a bonus for me, you could lose weight by following a diet that exclusively consists of eating a cube of sugar every XX minutes if you wanted to. Where fasting shines is that it helps control hunger and energy levels. A normal person in the west is basically always in a fed state (bf, lunch, snack, dinner) to the point it's hard for most people to differentiate thirst from hunger from boredom.

XorNot 1y ago

The milk in coffee is a pretty substantial number of calories, particularly if you have a programmer coffee habit.

mistrial9 1y ago

> does milk/cream in coffee make it not fasting almost certainly yes, that breaks the fasting .. milk specifically is fed by mothers to their young to gain weight a.k.a. not fasting

markus_zhang 1y ago
Wondering is there anything else I can put into coffee without breaking the fast? Thanks.
- _0ffh 1y ago
  It seems like some people regard small amounts of fat to be allowable, specifically a bit of coconut oil in your coffee. At least it won't break the fasting of the carb processing machinery, so it shouldn't prevent you from going into ketosis.
  - markus_zhang 1y ago
    Thanks! I will try out coconut oil later.
    - _0ffh 1y ago
      You're welcome! Just keep in mind there's not much research about how this may change metabolism compared to a strict fast. It may reduce any desired autophagy effects, which are unfortunately not very well-studied in the first place, but it may just es well increase them! I've seen both POVs argued in various articles. The only actual scientific study I can find (1) does show some interesting effects on various metabolic markers, though (in rats). 1. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38401196/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38401196/