4 ms·

> I cringe at past-Jacob’s naiveté. It’s been incredibly demoralizing to discover.... I don't think he's reached the end of his road to cynacism; maintaining t

by roenxi 1y ago

> I cringe at past-Jacob’s naiveté. It’s been incredibly demoralizing to discover.... I don't think he's reached the end of his road to cynacism; maintaining the moral high of looking for a utopia requires not spending any time assessing the evidence presented by reality. If he has complaints about the tech industry, stocked full of utopianists, he's in for a rude shock in the rest of the world if he keeps thinking about work in moral terms. The economy is a material system that optimises material results. The best outcome is making people you like materially better off (which can be easily done in tech, FWIW), but there are always going to be side effects because the world is messy and competitive. A fun challenge is to come up with a set of moral principles where most people aren't enabling evil. There is a reason that sociopaths tend to rise to the top, principled people don't get much support and are going to struggle with the actual impacts of what they do.

burnt-resistor 1y ago
Sort of. But I've seen what he's seen and worse. The situation isn't solved by changing "careers" or nibbling on the periphery. It requires either changing socioeconomic conditions through effective political organizing over a long timeframe or moving to another country that values community, solidarity, and people as more than just sources of money and labor to be used as tools.
- packetlost 1y ago
  > moving to another country that values community, solidarity, and people as more than just sources of money and labor to be used as tools Ok, but where is this?
  - 9283409232 1y ago
    On paper, the Nordic countries get closest but they are not immune to this either.
    - burnt-resistor 1y ago
      I guess it depends on each person's values, situation, tolerance level, and ability to delay gratification. America is great if you are well-off/rich 1%, but terrible for everyone else. Some European countries are better for everyone else but not so good for the very rich, relatively. YMMV, as they say. There are no utopias anywhere and cannot be. In my view, we should be aiming for peaceful, liberalized societies with maximum journalistic freedom, social safety nets, high social trust communities where neighbors know each other, and minimal deprivation where struggling people are given the tools to help improve their condition rather than being fined, humiliated, arrested, and/or deported without due process.

by roenxi 1y ago

burnt-resistor 1y ago

Sort of. But I've seen what he's seen and worse. The situation isn't solved by changing "careers" or nibbling on the periphery. It requires either changing socioeconomic conditions through effective political organizing over a long timeframe or moving to another country that values community, solidarity, and people as more than just sources of money and labor to be used as tools.

packetlost 1y ago
> moving to another country that values community, solidarity, and people as more than just sources of money and labor to be used as tools Ok, but where is this?
- 9283409232 1y ago
  On paper, the Nordic countries get closest but they are not immune to this either.
  - burnt-resistor 1y ago
    I guess it depends on each person's values, situation, tolerance level, and ability to delay gratification. America is great if you are well-off/rich 1%, but terrible for everyone else. Some European countries are better for everyone else but not so good for the very rich, relatively. YMMV, as they say. There are no utopias anywhere and cannot be. In my view, we should be aiming for peaceful, liberalized societies with maximum journalistic freedom, social safety nets, high social trust communities where neighbors know each other, and minimal deprivation where struggling people are given the tools to help improve their condition rather than being fined, humiliated, arrested, and/or deported without due process.