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After reading this and clicking around the site I'm still not entirely sure what these machines actually do. Apparently they grind up hard plastics and turn the

After reading this and clicking around the site I'm still not entirely sure what these machines actually do. Apparently they grind up hard plastics and turn them into pellets? But similar machines already exist as a commercial/industrial product that can easily and cheaply (from $500) be bought from Alibaba etc [1], so their differentiation is that their machines are open-source? Which is useful how, exactly? Their Pro page estimates EUR 2000+ in parts alone per machine, plus you need to cobble the things together yourself. [1] https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/plastic-recycling.html https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/plastic-recycling.html [2] https://www.preciousplastic.com/solutions/machines/pro https://www.preciousplastic.com/solutions/machines/pro

nchmy 1y ago
It's useful for people who don't want to make a bicycle-powered shredder and instead want to source local laser-cut specialized alloys and all sorts of electronics, so they can produce a few kg of shredded plastic per day, and then a few bowls. /s The value of Precious Plastic has long-since been realized - it inspired some actually-practical people to start making cottage recycling industries in the developing world, which has helped provide some employment and divert some plastic from rivers.
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  All of this plastic should be shoveled into a plasma gasifier. This performance art is just a grift. Recycling it results in suboptimal downstream products, landfilling it allows for future mismanagement (methane emissions, groundwater contamination). Gasification is cleaner than incineration, and you can burn the syn gas produced to recover some energy for cogeneration. Resulting slag produced is inert and can be safely landfilled.
  - alfor 1y ago
    Exactly: plastic is already cheap in the pristine version, the mixed, contaminated is a nonsense product, valid only as a grift, greenwashing prop. Burn it and handle the remains properly.
  - germinalphrase 1y ago
    Is there any (realistic) concern that plasma gasification causes an adverse incentive to generate additional waste vs waste reduction efforts because now localities are, to some degree, dependent on feeding the machine to generate electricity? Do localities with plasma gasifiers end up purchasing waste from elsewhere to maintain waste input stocks? I am not familiar with the economics here.
    - imachine1980_ 1y ago
      You can tax plastic also that will more than move the demand you can even use this tax for plasma gasification making more expensive to use and less to reuse.
    - mortenjorck 1y ago
      > Do localities with plasma gasifiers end up purchasing waste from elsewhere to maintain waste input stocks? This… sounds like a very good problem to have?
      - komali2 1y ago
        Until the plastic runs out. I was confused by the comment as well but I started thinking about the disposable movement - cheaper to just make and throw away plastic utensils than for McDonald's to have flatware, and remains cheap if there's buyers for the plastic. A good solution with unfortunately perverse incentives. Probably the solution is government bans on unnecessarily wasteful uses of plastics. The market is provably incapable of tackling environmental issues without regulatory encouragement.
        SchemaLoad 1y ago
        In Australia plastic utensils and bags have been banned for so long you'd almost forget they existed. Was a pretty big shock traveling to other countries and seeing how far behind they are on this stuff. There wasn't even a difficult transition period, it just probably costs an extra cent to use wood over plastic.
  - zevon 1y ago
    It's not really clear to me why it is better to build the required infrastructure, transport things to an incinerator and destroy them than have at least some of them locally recycled into useful stuff and spread some knowledge and experience to more people about materials and techniques involved... It's also not clear why you think the downstream products are suboptimal.
    - toomuchtodo 1y ago
      Because the alternative you propose won’t happen.
      - zevon 1y ago
        It is happening all around the world. You can go look at it. You can go participate in it. Just last week I held a workshop where we did it. I also never framed these activities as an "alternative" to other 4R efforts. That is a completely unnecessary dichotomy. Not everything is either-or.
kennywinker 1y ago
You’re making an apples to hand-grenades comparison. If you can find a shredder for $500 shredder off alibaba (every one i clicked was actually $1000 not including shipping and tariffs), it is likely going to break immediately if you stick anything bigger than a solo cup into it. A machine equivalent to the precious plastics shredder will likely cost you a similar amount. Probably more with shipping… and tariffs until the taco tacos.
- decimalenough 1y ago
  The one below is $495, and to my untrained eye this looks more solid than Precious's DIY machines. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Plastic-Crusher-Equipment-Manufacture-Small-Power_1601274736423.html https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Plastic-Crusher-Equip...
  - kennywinker 1y ago
    It is listed at $495, that’s true. Have you ever tried to buy a machine off alibaba? In my limited experience: unless it says buy it now, with shipping costs listed, it’s probably not the price you see on the listing. I see this same “pc180” elsewhere for about $1500, so i’d guess that’s what it’d cost when you actually try to buy it. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe that only applies to the couple machines I have looked into and not this one.
    - zevon 1y ago
      No, you are not wrong. Alibaba is a platform for business to business transactions. The $495 may end up being your price (before all other charges) for a machine if you buy a few shipping containers full of the things. If you want to buy a single one, it will be much more expensive and it will require you to convince the seller that you are planning to set up a business and require a sample or something of that sort. edit: If you don't want to build a machine, you can find vendors through the PP Bazar[1]. Even fancy ones with CE and made from wood somewhere in Austria :D [2] [1] https://bazar.preciousplastic.com/ https://bazar.preciousplastic.com/ [2] https://www.plasticpreneur.com/ https://www.plasticpreneur.com/

nchmy 1y ago

It's useful for people who don't want to make a bicycle-powered shredder and instead want to source local laser-cut specialized alloys and all sorts of electronics, so they can produce a few kg of shredded plastic per day, and then a few bowls. /s The value of Precious Plastic has long-since been realized - it inspired some actually-practical people to start making cottage recycling industries in the developing world, which has helped provide some employment and divert some plastic from rivers.

toomuchtodo 1y ago
All of this plastic should be shoveled into a plasma gasifier. This performance art is just a grift. Recycling it results in suboptimal downstream products, landfilling it allows for future mismanagement (methane emissions, groundwater contamination). Gasification is cleaner than incineration, and you can burn the syn gas produced to recover some energy for cogeneration. Resulting slag produced is inert and can be safely landfilled.
- alfor 1y ago
  Exactly: plastic is already cheap in the pristine version, the mixed, contaminated is a nonsense product, valid only as a grift, greenwashing prop. Burn it and handle the remains properly.
- germinalphrase 1y ago
  Is there any (realistic) concern that plasma gasification causes an adverse incentive to generate additional waste vs waste reduction efforts because now localities are, to some degree, dependent on feeding the machine to generate electricity? Do localities with plasma gasifiers end up purchasing waste from elsewhere to maintain waste input stocks? I am not familiar with the economics here.
  - imachine1980_ 1y ago
    You can tax plastic also that will more than move the demand you can even use this tax for plasma gasification making more expensive to use and less to reuse.
  - mortenjorck 1y ago
    > Do localities with plasma gasifiers end up purchasing waste from elsewhere to maintain waste input stocks? This… sounds like a very good problem to have?
    - komali2 1y ago
      Until the plastic runs out. I was confused by the comment as well but I started thinking about the disposable movement - cheaper to just make and throw away plastic utensils than for McDonald's to have flatware, and remains cheap if there's buyers for the plastic. A good solution with unfortunately perverse incentives. Probably the solution is government bans on unnecessarily wasteful uses of plastics. The market is provably incapable of tackling environmental issues without regulatory encouragement.
      - SchemaLoad 1y ago
        In Australia plastic utensils and bags have been banned for so long you'd almost forget they existed. Was a pretty big shock traveling to other countries and seeing how far behind they are on this stuff. There wasn't even a difficult transition period, it just probably costs an extra cent to use wood over plastic.
- zevon 1y ago
  It's not really clear to me why it is better to build the required infrastructure, transport things to an incinerator and destroy them than have at least some of them locally recycled into useful stuff and spread some knowledge and experience to more people about materials and techniques involved... It's also not clear why you think the downstream products are suboptimal.
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    Because the alternative you propose won’t happen.
    - zevon 1y ago
      It is happening all around the world. You can go look at it. You can go participate in it. Just last week I held a workshop where we did it. I also never framed these activities as an "alternative" to other 4R efforts. That is a completely unnecessary dichotomy. Not everything is either-or.

kennywinker 1y ago

You’re making an apples to hand-grenades comparison. If you can find a shredder for $500 shredder off alibaba (every one i clicked was actually $1000 not including shipping and tariffs), it is likely going to break immediately if you stick anything bigger than a solo cup into it. A machine equivalent to the precious plastics shredder will likely cost you a similar amount. Probably more with shipping… and tariffs until the taco tacos.

decimalenough 1y ago
The one below is $495, and to my untrained eye this looks more solid than Precious's DIY machines. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Plastic-Crusher-Equipment-Manufacture-Small-Power_1601274736423.html https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Plastic-Crusher-Equip...
- kennywinker 1y ago
  It is listed at $495, that’s true. Have you ever tried to buy a machine off alibaba? In my limited experience: unless it says buy it now, with shipping costs listed, it’s probably not the price you see on the listing. I see this same “pc180” elsewhere for about $1500, so i’d guess that’s what it’d cost when you actually try to buy it. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe that only applies to the couple machines I have looked into and not this one.
  - zevon 1y ago
    No, you are not wrong. Alibaba is a platform for business to business transactions. The $495 may end up being your price (before all other charges) for a machine if you buy a few shipping containers full of the things. If you want to buy a single one, it will be much more expensive and it will require you to convince the seller that you are planning to set up a business and require a sample or something of that sort. edit: If you don't want to build a machine, you can find vendors through the PP Bazar[1]. Even fancy ones with CE and made from wood somewhere in Austria :D [2] [1] https://bazar.preciousplastic.com/ https://bazar.preciousplastic.com/ [2] https://www.plasticpreneur.com/ https://www.plasticpreneur.com/