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I have no idea how this tracks to births, but I did some studies before of Nordic homicide rate, and if you drop an actual Nordic citizen in similarly white hom

by ty6853 1y ago

I have no idea how this tracks to births, but I did some studies before of Nordic homicide rate, and if you drop an actual Nordic citizen in similarly white homogenous states like new hampshire their murder rate isn't terribly worse than it is in a Nordic nation. My hypothesis is there may be something like this effect happening, where once you control for nordic people in similarly white states I bet they'd have much closer to nordic birth risk.

tokai 1y ago
What about looking at economic strata instead at ethnicity?
- ty6853 1y ago
  Sure, take a look at Bahamas or Seychelles, "rich" black countries almost as high GDP per capita as some of the nordic nations (PPP adjusted in Seychelles case). Still with infant mortality in the relative shitter. Or compare hispanic to blacks at similar income in USA, they knock them out the park on infant mortality.
  - keybored 1y ago
    > Sure, take a look at Bahamas or Seychelles, "rich" black countries almost as high GDP per capita as some of the nordic nations. Still with infant mortality in the relative shitter. The Seychelles Gini coefficient is higher than Sweden. There doesn’t seem to be data on the Bahamas.
    - ty6853 1y ago
      Not by much. 0.32 vs 0.30 by this estimate https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/economic-inequality-gini-index https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/economic-inequality-gini-...
      - keybored 1y ago
        Weird, I was using Wikipedia which gave “medium inequality”.
        Muromec 1y ago
        Gini coeff is bullshit anyway. Just look at who's topmost at income equality (Ukraine) and also at the bottom of the list for wealth inequality. This makes no sense as a practical indicator. Especially for the racist take the other poster is making. Having mostly flat income inequality can mean either of those -- everybody is rich and paying taxes and people with money are tax evading really good, so poor don't have access to healthcare. Then again, just because country has allocated money for healthcare, the outcome depends on how many sick/old/poor people need it and how well it's used up, because corruption exists and isn't reflected in Gini coeff.
        keybored 1y ago
        Interesting. Something for me to look into. Thanks!
keybored 1y ago
The Nordics is where American conservatives and liberals find unity on harmonious white homogenity. > My hypothesis is there may be something like this effect happening, where once you control for nordic people in similarly white states I bet they'd have much closer to nordic birth risk. That follows from murder rates? I don’t follow.
const_cast 1y ago
Ham-fisting statistics to support some model of eugenics and racially perfect societies is an old tale. We need to be very careful with statistics, because rarely does one or even a dozen cover the whole picture. For example, in the US we can see that black individuals are more likely to commit crime. We could easily run with that and draw some unfavorable conclusions. But, they're also much more likely to be impoverished, more likely to live in communities with low infrastructure funding, more likely to live in communities with drugs, more likely to have much poorer access to education, and more likely to face barriers to employment.
- ty6853 1y ago
  OK but blacks in Seychelles (adjusting for purchasing parity, about the richest black nation in existence to the point they're not far from the black american GDP per capita) have a gini coefficient far better than the US (in fact almost same as Sweden) but still have a pretty similar infant mortality to blacks in the US. So I don't know about the thesis they just need to be made more equal to the rest of USA or something. Definitely not interested in accepting eugenics either, just maybe we should acknowledge and be OK with the fact some demographics are just different and we shouldn't be forcing them to be like the nordics.
  - const_cast 1y ago
    I don't think it's a matter of demographics being different, I think it's a matter of us wanting to believe some demographics are inferior because that makes us feel better. I mean, we're not describing positive, but different, traits, now are we? In regards to Seychelles - are we looking at levels of education? Are we looking at income inequality? Are we looking at corruption? Are we even considered how developed the nation is? How long have they been developing? Have we taken a gander at any population pyramids? Again, it feels like we're hamfisting these things to draw conclusions that we want to draw. I don't think just having white people fixes things, we need to look at what those white people are doing that actually works. Even money doesn't necessarily fix things, if you're already underdeveloped or you have high corruption.

by ty6853 1y ago

tokai 1y ago

What about looking at economic strata instead at ethnicity?

ty6853 1y ago
Sure, take a look at Bahamas or Seychelles, "rich" black countries almost as high GDP per capita as some of the nordic nations (PPP adjusted in Seychelles case). Still with infant mortality in the relative shitter. Or compare hispanic to blacks at similar income in USA, they knock them out the park on infant mortality.
- keybored 1y ago
  > Sure, take a look at Bahamas or Seychelles, "rich" black countries almost as high GDP per capita as some of the nordic nations. Still with infant mortality in the relative shitter. The Seychelles Gini coefficient is higher than Sweden. There doesn’t seem to be data on the Bahamas.
  - ty6853 1y ago
    Not by much. 0.32 vs 0.30 by this estimate https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/economic-inequality-gini-index https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/economic-inequality-gini-...
    - keybored 1y ago
      Weird, I was using Wikipedia which gave “medium inequality”.
      - Muromec 1y ago
        Gini coeff is bullshit anyway. Just look at who's topmost at income equality (Ukraine) and also at the bottom of the list for wealth inequality. This makes no sense as a practical indicator. Especially for the racist take the other poster is making. Having mostly flat income inequality can mean either of those -- everybody is rich and paying taxes and people with money are tax evading really good, so poor don't have access to healthcare. Then again, just because country has allocated money for healthcare, the outcome depends on how many sick/old/poor people need it and how well it's used up, because corruption exists and isn't reflected in Gini coeff.
        keybored 1y ago
        Interesting. Something for me to look into. Thanks!

keybored 1y ago

The Nordics is where American conservatives and liberals find unity on harmonious white homogenity. > My hypothesis is there may be something like this effect happening, where once you control for nordic people in similarly white states I bet they'd have much closer to nordic birth risk. That follows from murder rates? I don’t follow.

const_cast 1y ago

Ham-fisting statistics to support some model of eugenics and racially perfect societies is an old tale. We need to be very careful with statistics, because rarely does one or even a dozen cover the whole picture. For example, in the US we can see that black individuals are more likely to commit crime. We could easily run with that and draw some unfavorable conclusions. But, they're also much more likely to be impoverished, more likely to live in communities with low infrastructure funding, more likely to live in communities with drugs, more likely to have much poorer access to education, and more likely to face barriers to employment.

ty6853 1y ago
OK but blacks in Seychelles (adjusting for purchasing parity, about the richest black nation in existence to the point they're not far from the black american GDP per capita) have a gini coefficient far better than the US (in fact almost same as Sweden) but still have a pretty similar infant mortality to blacks in the US. So I don't know about the thesis they just need to be made more equal to the rest of USA or something. Definitely not interested in accepting eugenics either, just maybe we should acknowledge and be OK with the fact some demographics are just different and we shouldn't be forcing them to be like the nordics.
- const_cast 1y ago
  I don't think it's a matter of demographics being different, I think it's a matter of us wanting to believe some demographics are inferior because that makes us feel better. I mean, we're not describing positive, but different, traits, now are we? In regards to Seychelles - are we looking at levels of education? Are we looking at income inequality? Are we looking at corruption? Are we even considered how developed the nation is? How long have they been developing? Have we taken a gander at any population pyramids? Again, it feels like we're hamfisting these things to draw conclusions that we want to draw. I don't think just having white people fixes things, we need to look at what those white people are doing that actually works. Even money doesn't necessarily fix things, if you're already underdeveloped or you have high corruption.