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I love to always see such comments. On JVM you use crap like Spring and over-engineer everything. 20 types, interfaces and objects to keep single string in memo

I love to always see such comments. On JVM you use crap like Spring and over-engineer everything. 20 types, interfaces and objects to keep single string in memory. JVM also like memory, but can be tailored to look okayish, still worse than opponents.

bdangubic 1y ago
same - in every single language with incompetent team
paxys 1y ago
And I'm 100% sure you can do the same in Swift.
- jen20 1y ago
  Swift's limitations around reflection actually make it surprisingly difficult to create a typical Java-style mess with IOC containers and so forth.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Ever heard of Swift macros? Do you know where Java EE comes from? It started as an Objective-C framework, a language which Swift has full interoperability with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Objects_Everywhere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Objects_Everywhere
    - jen20 1y ago
      > Ever heard of Swift macros? Yes, having lived on the daily build bleeding edge of Swift for several years, including while macros were being developed, I have indeed heard of them. > Do you know where Java EE comes from? Fully aware of the history. The point stands: it is substantially harder with Swift to make the kind of spring style mess that JVM apps typically become (of course there are exceptions: I typically suggest people write Java like Martin Thompson instead of Martin Fowler). Furthermore, _people just don’t do it_. I imagine you could visualise the percentage of swift server apps using an IOC container using no hands.
      - pjmlp 1y ago
        First the amount of Swift server apps has to grow to a number that is actually relevant for enterprise architects to pay attention. Then I can start counting.
        jen20 1y ago
        That is the reason I used percentages, rather than absolute. For Java, every single app I’ve ever seen has been a massive shit show. For Swift, 0 of the 40-50 I’ve seen are.
        pjmlp 1y ago
        For Swift to be a shit show on Fortune 500 Linux and Windows servers, someone has to start shipping them in volume, regardless of percentiles. Any language can be a shit show, when enough people beyond the adoption curve write code in them, from the letcoders with MIT degree to the six week bootcamp learners shipping single functions as a package, and architects designing future proof architectures on whiteboards with SAFe. When Swift finally crosses into this world, then we can compare how much of it has survived the world scale adoption exposure, beyond cozy Apple ecosystem.
- eikenberry 1y ago
  It's not technical, it's cultural. Different community conventions.
- jbverschoor 1y ago
  Sure, And you can also make beautiful code in php, or shot code in Java It’s the history, standard libs, and all the legacy tutorials which don’t get erased from the net

bdangubic 1y ago

same - in every single language with incompetent team

paxys 1y ago

And I'm 100% sure you can do the same in Swift.

jen20 1y ago
Swift's limitations around reflection actually make it surprisingly difficult to create a typical Java-style mess with IOC containers and so forth.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  Ever heard of Swift macros? Do you know where Java EE comes from? It started as an Objective-C framework, a language which Swift has full interoperability with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Objects_Everywhere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed_Objects_Everywhere
  - jen20 1y ago
    > Ever heard of Swift macros? Yes, having lived on the daily build bleeding edge of Swift for several years, including while macros were being developed, I have indeed heard of them. > Do you know where Java EE comes from? Fully aware of the history. The point stands: it is substantially harder with Swift to make the kind of spring style mess that JVM apps typically become (of course there are exceptions: I typically suggest people write Java like Martin Thompson instead of Martin Fowler). Furthermore, _people just don’t do it_. I imagine you could visualise the percentage of swift server apps using an IOC container using no hands.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      First the amount of Swift server apps has to grow to a number that is actually relevant for enterprise architects to pay attention. Then I can start counting.
      - jen20 1y ago
        That is the reason I used percentages, rather than absolute. For Java, every single app I’ve ever seen has been a massive shit show. For Swift, 0 of the 40-50 I’ve seen are.
        pjmlp 1y ago
        For Swift to be a shit show on Fortune 500 Linux and Windows servers, someone has to start shipping them in volume, regardless of percentiles. Any language can be a shit show, when enough people beyond the adoption curve write code in them, from the letcoders with MIT degree to the six week bootcamp learners shipping single functions as a package, and architects designing future proof architectures on whiteboards with SAFe. When Swift finally crosses into this world, then we can compare how much of it has survived the world scale adoption exposure, beyond cozy Apple ecosystem.
eikenberry 1y ago
It's not technical, it's cultural. Different community conventions.
jbverschoor 1y ago
Sure, And you can also make beautiful code in php, or shot code in Java It’s the history, standard libs, and all the legacy tutorials which don’t get erased from the net